Soviet Vehicle Starting

[Coltman15]

Hello all,

Dumb question but can you use a nitrogen bottle to start Soviet Air start diesel engines or does it have to be strictly regular compressed air?

 

[Robin33ba07]

I would imagine compressed air as the vehicle would have its own compressor and air bottle(s)

 

[Coltman15]

I would imagine compressed air as the vehicle would have its own compressor and air bottle(s)

The reason I ask is my electric starter failed, so I cannot build air pressure and need that first start. High pressure Air compressor filling stations are not common but nitrogen is. Would I be ok to get the first start using a newly filled nitrogen bottle?

 

[Mullaney]

The reason I ask is my electric starter failed, so I cannot build air pressure and need that first start. High pressure Air compressor filling stations are not common but nitrogen is. Would I be ok to get the first start using a newly filled nitrogen bottle?

.
I would be concerned.
If you have a full tank of nitrogen - and no regulator - and you put 3000 pounds into a hundred pound air line you might have a really bad day.

 

[Coltman15]

.
I would be concerned.
If you have a full tank of nitrogen - and no regulator - and you put 3000 pounds into a hundred pound air line you might have a really bad day.

Pressure is not a problem. The vehicles run on high pressure systems, 2200 PSI. Nitrogen tank is filled to that. I’m more asking if the injection of nitrogen on the top of the cylinder head would evacuate all the oxygen, not allowing the right fuel air mixture.

 

[Mullaney]

Pressure is not a problem. The vehicles run on high pressure systems, 2200 PSI. Nitrogen tank is filled to that. I’m more asking if the injection of nitrogen on the top of the cylinder head would evacuate all the oxygen, not allowing the right fuel air mixture.

.
My best guess is that it will turn over and in another turn or two, the nitrogen will leave through the exhaust - bringing your air/fuel mixture to more reasonable rates. Air is 78% Nitrogen, therefore if you accidentally mix pure nitrogen with air, nothing bad will happen.

 

[Robin33ba07]

find out where the fire brigade get there Breathing Apparatus sets re filled ? Why not start it using the batteries ?

 

[Coltman15]

find out where the fire brigade get there Breathing Apparatus sets re filled ? Why not start it using the batteries ?

Fire brigade scuba units have different valves and federal law does not allow tanks to be filled without the proper valve design for the type of gas being used. Breathable air, compressed air, nitrogen, O2, all have specific filling valves. The tank in the armor is a nitrogen tank/valve. And the electric starter is burn up, so the only alternative is air. At least until I can get a starter imported.

 

[Mullaney]

Fire brigade scuba units have different valves and federal law does not allow tanks to be filled without the proper valve design for the type of gas being used. Breathable air, compressed air, nitrogen, O2, all have specific filling valves. The tank in the armor is a nitrogen tank/valve. And the electric starter is burn up, so the only alternative is air. At least until I can get a starter imported.

Okay! Well then, you mentioned "The tank in the armor is a nitrogen tank/valve." so I guess you should be able to fire that baby up! Even solves my question about over-charging the starter with several thousand pounds vs a hundred.

Any chance you could shoot us a picture or two?
Maybe even the bottle where the nitro is plugged in?

AND, it doesn't matter if it needs paint or not.
We would just love to see what you are working on...

 

[Robin33ba07]

did you get the pictures I sent of my current set ,after my original Soviet valve and tank failed ?

 

[Mullaney]

did you get the pictures I sent of my current set ,after my original Soviet valve and tank failed ?

.
No Sir. Did not receive any pictures...
Want to try again?

 

[Coltman15]

He emailed them to me directly! I’m going to copy the setup, but I sourced a starter! Waiting patiently for that to arrive

 

[sue]

Nitrogen is fine, watch the pressure. A lot of rusky piston yaks have the same
”air” start type system.

 

[eMGunslinger]

The system is internally regulated, so incoming line pressure isn't a big deal. You can run a copper line after disconnecting one of the internal bottles and tap into it. You can use any inert gas and it wont matter. Nitrogen, Argon, Compressed air it'll all do the same thing but since you are putting an inert in the cylinders you will want to juice it slightly through the intake with the filters off or it'll have a hard time hitting off.

Also you're going to have the starter switch wide open as someone opens the bottle, don't open the bottle all the way and then hit the starter. Hit the starter then open the bottle and you will never have pressure issues since it cannot build up in the system.

If you need more help let me know, there are only a few vehicles that have a system like this and I own or have owned most.

 

[Augdog1964]

The reason I ask is my electric starter failed, so I cannot build air pressure and need that first start. High pressure Air compressor filling stations are not common but nitrogen is. Would I be ok to get the first start using a newly filled nitrogen bottle?

I have a 5000 psi compressor we used to fill bottles, or directly hook up to the port to start our soviet vehicles... Hatz diesel engine... fantastic bit of kit... 3 stage compressor. Originally US Air Force....

 

[glcaines]

Why not have the electric starter rebuilt?

 

[sue]

Yea, I had a yak with the air start system. Truly amazing system never once leaked down.
got nervous about taking it to a air show and being
there overnight if it ever leaked down.
So installed an electric starter also just incase.
One time after doing some maintenance and being on an extended vacation after a couple of months had to use the electric starter.

 

[patracy]

The system is internally regulated, so incoming line pressure isn't a big deal. You can run a copper line after disconnecting one of the internal bottles and tap into it. You can use any inert gas and it wont matter. Nitrogen, Argon, Compressed air it'll all do the same thing but since you are putting an inert in the cylinders you will want to juice it slightly through the intake with the filters off or it'll have a hard time hitting off.

Also you're going to have the starter switch wide open as someone opens the bottle, don't open the bottle all the way and then hit the starter. Hit the starter then open the bottle and you will never have pressure issues since it cannot build up in the system.

If you need more help let me know, there are only a few vehicles that have a system like this and I own or have owned most.

Wasn't Joe using nitrogen on the T34? I seem to recall it was easier for him to get than compressed air cylinders.