Spicer 5 Speed in an A3

[Crazyguyla]

I was wondering the feasibility of putting a Spicer 3053 in an A3. Besides finding a proper flywheel/ clutch combination and adapter from engine to transmission. What other problems would there be? It's not something I'm palnning on doing anytime soon, just an idea.

 

[mudguppy]

i'd use a 5T trans rather than the deuce trans; the Cat puts out more power than the MF.

 

[wreckerman893]

Since the A3's were just modified A2's the clutch pedal and linkage should go right back in......you would need a donor truck. If I were going that route I would look for a 6 speed out of a big civy truck.

 

[shovelheadmike]

Find a trans from a civi truck that had a Cat engine with the same bolt pattern as the 3116. That way there is no need for adapters. The clutch linkage from an A2 should bolt directly in.

 

[shovelheadmike]

Find a ZF6 6 speed from a mid 90s GMC.

 

[ranchhopper]

Length might be a problem I put a trans from a five ton in my bobbed deuce and the trans from the deuce was considerably shorter than the five ton manual. But I believe the allison being a bit longer than a stock deuce trans might work in your favor.

 

[jesusgatos]

moving the transfercase back looks like it would be EZ.

 

[Capt.Marion]

Are the bellhousings the same?

 

[Sephirothq]

I have a 5 speed ZF behind the cat in mine.

 

[mudguppy]

... If I were going that route I would look for a 6 speed out of a big civy truck.

the problem i had when researching trans' was that 5 or 6 speeds in the medium duty realm are almost alway direct drive. usually the only trucks that use 5 or 6 speeds are around-town box trucks, thus the direct drive. OD trans are out there, but they're pretty hard to find in my area, at least.

Find a trans from a civi truck that had a Cat engine with the same bolt pattern as the 3116. That way there is no need for adapters. ...

there is no need to look for a trans from behind a Cat. Cats use an SAE bolt pattern, likely #2. any trans with a #2 clutch housing will fit.

Find a ZF6 6 speed from a mid 90s GMC.

unless i'm mistaken, the ZF6's were only used behind the Dmax's in early 00's. so a GM ZF6 is actually pretty rare. you'd be much better off finding a Ford ZF6 since they were used behind P-strokes from '99-'08. most of the 6spd trucks are '99-'03 with 7.3 motors.

regardless, a ZF6 won't fit an SAE pattern. i'm not sure if there is an adapter to make it work, but it's likely hard to find and/or expensive. the ZF6 is also extremely long.



to make the swap less painful, use either the 2.5T or the 5T trans - the OE mechanical clutch linkages should go in no problem (5T?). if you use any other trans from a civy truck, it'll likely use a hydraulic clutch; not a big deal for the trans, but now you'll have to hang a clutch pedal in the cab. this takes some fab work.

 

[mudguppy]

I have a 5 speed ZF behind the cat in mine.

medium duty ZF? what application? how does your clutch hook-up work?

 

[Sephirothq]

I wil have to look up the numbers to see what ZF it is. It is in my M36E3. I have a few things on here posted about the truck. I think it is either an S542 or an S547. I know it has a .76 overdrive ratio.

 

[m-35tom]

that is still a painful od ratio. it has been impossible to find a trans short enough to fit and also have an od ratio that allows highway use. the 3053 can operate at much more than the design ratings if used properly and not abused. while it was designed for 300 ftlb, it has been used succesfully behind cat 3208 (600 ftlb) just must be used with care.

tom

 

[jesusgatos]

Short enough to fit without moving the transfercase? What would be the big deal with moving it back a bit? Modifying the driveshafts? Something else I'm missing?

 

[m-35tom]

as in it has been impossible to find a trans with a good overdrive and also short enough to just replace the 3053. hence the od gear set that the bad weather in IL has delayed!

tom

 

[mudguppy]

Short enough to fit without moving the transfercase? What would be the big deal with moving it back a bit? Modifying the driveshafts? Something else I'm missing?

... that plus linkage, air line, speedo cable, and P-brake cable. not insurmountable...

but it sure looks like a PITA to me. changing one is a beach; something i hope to never have to do (jinx?). it just looks like the shift, removal, drill (lots of big holes), fit, adjust process would be a big, heaping bowl of suck.

plus, if the new trans is much longer than the Spicer, you're going to run into that cross member that holds the shift linkage. isn't that thing riveted in?

 

[Unforgiven]

Medium Duty Allisons, 2000 & 3000 series have much deeper OD gearing. Somewhere around 0.65. Many of them have higher 1st gears as well (including torque multiplication) than the stock Deuce granny.

I'd replace the A3 4 speed Allison with a 5 or 6 speed Allison w/ good OD gearing. Just put the TC back & modify the driveshafts.

 

[Unforgiven]

Allison 1545 currently in the A3:

302 lb dry
~27" long
Gears:
1st-3.45:1
2nd-2.25:1
3rd-1.41:1
4th-1:1
Rev-5.02:1

Example: Allison 2500 series:
330 lbs dry
~29" long

1st-3.51:1
2nd-1.90:1
3rd-1.44:1
4th-1:1
5th-0.74:1
6th-0.64:1
Rev-5.09:1

Example: Allison MD3060:
575 lbs dry
~29" long

1st-3.49:1
2nd-1.86:1
3rd-1.41:1
4th-1:1
5th-0.75:1
6th-0.65:1
Rev-5.03:1

The 2500 series is almost the same size as what's currently in the truck & is far superior with respect to strength, torque, & gearing. And you're only giving up 30 lbs. Plus, your truck is already plumbed for an automatic tranny.

If you line it up carefully you might even be able to keep the TC where it is & chop 2" out of the intermediate shaft, or have a driveline shop make a custom flange-to-flange adapter from the tranny to the TC.

 

[jesusgatos]

... that plus linkage, air line, speedo cable, and P-brake cable. not insurmountable...

but it sure looks like a PITA to me. changing one is a beach; something i hope to never have to do (jinx?). it just looks like the shift, removal, drill (lots of big holes), fit, adjust process would be a big, heaping bowl of suck.

plus, if the new trans is much longer than the Spicer, you're going to run into that cross member that holds the shift linkage. isn't that thing riveted in?

Hmmm, guess it's all a matter of perspective. I don't think any of that stuff sounds like much trouble at all. I replaced my transfer-case a while ago (and I'm going to have to do it again) and it wasn't too bad. I also have the cab off Mah Deuce right now, so I went out and took a few measurements. Looks like you could easily move the transfer-case back about 3", and that would leave about a 1/4" between the parking brake lever arm and the crossmember. That's the first interference you'll run into. Up front the driveshaft yoke at the transmission will run into the transfer-case shift-tower if the transmission was shifted 2" back. Somewhere around 1.5" would probably be about what I'd be comfortable with, but the transfer-case shifter mount would be REALLY easy to modify. Extending the shift-linkage = piece of cake. Speedo and parking brake cables look like they would still work just fine if the transfer-case were pushed 3" back. So up to 3", it's just a matter of drilling a few holes (in the crossmember for the D-side & in the frame for the P-side). Anything past 3" and the crossmember behind the transfer-case would need to be modified or moved. Oh, and I've got a transfer-case PTO on Mah Deuce too. Doesn't look like that would present any clearance problems either.

 

[goodguyzy]

What about a gear splitter like a few A3 owners have already done, i would like to put one in mine but getting one apparently isn't as easy as i thought.