springer seats

[jesusgatos]

I'm going to install some customized springer seats in Mah Deuce. I'm just going to mount low-back baja-type suspension seats (like these) on top of them, and then I'm going to replace the springs and shocks with coilover shocks off a full-suspension mountain bike (like these).

I just finished stripping the seat bases so I can have them sand-blasted, and found out that one of them has been in an accident. The seat base is twisted, and a few of the tubes are cracking. So I need to find one more springer seat base. No big deal. But the sliders on both seat bases are all seized-up. Anybody know where I might be able to buy some new ones? Don't actually care if they're NEW, just as long as they're in good condition.

The other thing I'm wondering about is seatbelt mounts. Schroth 4-point harnesses that I'd like to use. I can see where the lap-belts are supposed to be bolted to the top half of the seat base, but were these springer seats ever used in truck with shoulder-belts? I'm just wondering how they might have been mounted. I don't know how bad of a wreck it might have been in, but the fact that one of the seat bases I've got is bent and cracked has me concerned about mounting shoulder harnesses to it.

 

[gimpyrobb]

The military actually runs straps from the seat base to the back of the cab for its lap belts. I don't think they trusted the seat base either.

 

[jesusgatos]

Oh, that's a GREAT idea. I can see how it would be really easy to mount those straps so that they wouldn't restrict the movement of the seat, but wouldn't have too much slack in them. Now that I'm thinking about it, that might be a good way to handle the shoulder-straps too. Only problem is, that with the seats I want to run, the shoulder straps should be mounted up higher then the back of the seat.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I have some belts like that - that I have been thinking about installing in my truck, for obvious reasons. When ever I get to that point, I will post some up-dates here.

 

[jesusgatos]

I'd love to see some pictures if any of you have seats mounted like that.

 

[deuce_09]

dude ur supposed to mount the shoulder mount no more than 4" below ur shoulders cuz if u dont and u hit a big bump and the seat springs up quickly,it will compress ur spine. just a heads up man. seats look cool sounds like a cool project.

 

[jesusgatos]

In general, or are you talking specifically about suspension seats? I know a bit about mounting 4 and 5-point harnesses in race-type applications, but I've never had a vehicle with suspension seats before. I understand what you're saying about compression though. That was my concern, and the reason why I posted. Hoping to get some input from people with more experience in this area.

 

[deuce_09]

well ive built a rock crawler/mud truck with racing buckets and 4 point harnesses.
whats ur question exactly

 

[deuce_09]

and i was talking about spring seats but if i were u i would look into seats that use an airbag instead of a coil over shock. they have them in 18 wheelers.buy the bracket and the bag and then mount the seat in the pic on the bracket and hook the bag up to the air on ur deuce. the seat sits low untill u crank up the truck and its fully adjustable. from how stiff u want it to how high or low u want to sit. in my opinion its a better option.

 

[jesusgatos]

Sorry, maybe I should have made it a bit clearer. If the shoulder-straps are anchored to the cab, they're going to shift and get tighter and looser as the seats move up/down. On the other hand, if they're anchored to the seat base, I don't think they'd be strong enough. The solution Gimp pointed out is one good way to handle it.

My new cab has a reinforcing plate and I'm building a rollcage, so anchor-points are not going to be a problem.

 

[jesusgatos]

and i was talking about spring seats but if i were u i would look into seats that use an airbag instead of a coil over shock. they have them in 18 wheelers.buy the bracket and the bag and then mount the seat in the pic on the bracket and hook the bag up to the air on ur deuce. the seat sits low untill u crank up the truck and its fully adjustable. from how stiff u want it to how high or low u want to sit. in my opinion its a better option.

Thanks for the suggestion. That's another good option, but I'm kind of partial to the idea of using mtb shocks.

 

[deuce_09]

thats what i plan to do later on down the road. itll ride like a caddy
but for now ive gotta settle for stock

 

[deuce_09]

Thanks for the suggestion. That's another good option, but I'm kind of partial to the idea of using mtb shocks.

i understand im just sayin coilover shocks are not going to be as comfortable as airbags. and that the shocks act differently with different weight. (more or less spring/bounce)and will sit at the same height always. with the air bags u will be able to adjust everything.and if u think about it in the long run, ull eventually have to replace a shock.that air bag will last 10 times as long. the main difference between shocks and bags is the reaction to a big bump, an air bag will bounce up and down more times than a shock but it will do it smoothly(wont jar u) the shock on the other hand reacts quicker and is stiffer(uncomfortable) but bounces less.
its ur choice

 

[deuce_09]

I have some belts like that - that I have been thinking about installing in my truck, for obvious reasons. When ever I get to that point, I will post some up-dates here.

obvious reason being what happened in your avatar?
yea good idea.

 

[jesusgatos]

i understand im just sayin coilover shocks are not going to be as comfortable as airbags. and that the shocks act differently with different weight. (more or less spring/bounce)and will sit at the same height always. with the air bags u will be able to adjust everything.and if u think about it in the long run, ull eventually have to replace a shock.that air bag will last 10 times as long. the main difference between shocks and bags is the reaction to a big bump, an air bag will bounce up and down more times than a shock but it will do it smoothly(wont jar u) the shock on the other hand reacts quicker and is stiffer(uncomfortable) but bounces less.
its ur choice

If I run an airbag, I'd still have to run a shock. Coilovers are are nice simple package, and they're very adjustable. I can get all kinds of different spring-rates, and the preload is very easy to change. The valving on most of those shocks is also externally adjustable, so I can dial-in the shocks to provide exactly the ride I'm looking for. Plus there's those secondary assist springs with the adjustable preload crank on the front of the seat. I'm going to keep those, and use them for fine-tuning. But really, I don't want the seats to move TOO much. Just take the edge off sharp hits, and smooth out the washboard kind of stutter-bumps.

 

[gringeltaube]

I'd love to see some pictures if any of you have seats mounted like that.

Sorry no pics, since I have not done that mod. yet. But if you had access to the A3's TM 9-2320-386-24P, fig. 135 - 137 are showing all the details and description of parts for the (new version-)springer seat vs 3-point safety belts, including the mentioned additional safety straps and the reinforced, extended-height mounting posts.

Attached is a small diagram taken from the book, with the basic parts for the driver side.
It would be great to know the distance "H", measured from the cab's edge up to the center of the hole or bolt for the upper mounting point.
Any A3 owner willing to help here?

TIA,
G.

 

[jesusgatos]

Thanks G. I didn't know there were different versions of the springer seats. How are they different? I'll have to download that TM, but do they use those shoulder-strap mounts for springer seats, or just for box seats?

 

[gringeltaube]

I think A3's only came with this new "floating" seat and no other option.
Basically it's the same principle as the earlier version: adjustable spring pre-load and a non-adjustable shock absorber.
They might perform better and it also appears that the rear cushion does not need that space-consuming frame for angle- and height adjustment. (Sorry, I have only worked with the A2 seats and can tell the difference only by looking at the A3 book... - probably A3 owners know better about advantages!?)

Attached are exploded view diagrams of both versions, for comparison.

G.

 

[jesusgatos]

Oh wow, that's WAY different. I definitely have the old-style springers.

 

[frodobaggins]

Attached are exploded view diagrams of both versions, for comparison.

G.

Thanks, I needed that diagram of the A2 seat and you saved me the trouble.