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starting issues

ryanktm17@yahoo.com

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Galeton,pa
i have been having a cold starting issue, glow plugs are new and getting power when wait light is lit, have replaced the mechanical pump and fuel filter, Starts great when engine is warm but if it sits overnight i have to crank and crank even when i let the glow plugs cycle, I have been told its possibly a leaking fuel line but i dont ever see or smell fuel leaking.. any ideas? is the injection pump loosing prime? help me out guys Thanks
 

Cucvnut

Well-known member
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Location
Carver, Oregon
Hi welcome to ss. Have you down loaded the TM's? They are at the top of the main forum. There is a trouble shooting tm. I would start there. Have you checked your glow plug card to see if its working? Also I would check the relay on the fire wall.
 

CUCVFAN

Gunner's Mate First Class
Steel Soldiers Supporter
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Jarrettsville, MD
Does it smoke (white) while cranking? If not, it's probably a fuel drain back problem. If so, it's probably glow plug related.
 

ryanktm17@yahoo.com

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Galeton,pa
I have replaced this before my wait light is working and also i can hear the relay working. Im sure that the temp sensor is working since when warm and starting without the wait light fires instantly..
 

dstang97

Well-known member
1,859
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Location
Clover, SC
sounds like a fuel issue. The common spots for leaking fuel is, lift pump and fuel filter base. You can put a clear hose coming off the injector pump return and look for bubbles.
 

acesneights1

Member
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Location
CT
Look at the IP. If it is wet around the IP the throttle shaft seals are toast and the IP is probably not far behind. Also the check valve can be bad on the return line. If possible tryi parking the truck nose downhill overnight and see if that helps.
 

top_prop

Member
243
8
18
Location
Suffolk, VA
Look at the IP. If it is wet around the IP the throttle shaft seals are toast and the IP is probably not far behind. Also the check valve can be bad on the return line. If possible tryi parking the truck nose downhill overnight and see if that helps.

I'm having trouble with my truck.... I park my civi J code diesel nose up in my drive way and it always starts on the second kick of the starter after sitting all night... then its good all day on the first touch of the starter...

I've checked the glow plugs with an Ohm meter... they are good,, and they were put on a manual switch with the controller totally removed by the previous owner and its supply voltage via the relay... i've put an electric pump in an bypassed the mech pump hopping that would fix it... it doesn't seem to matter how long I let the electric pump run before I engage the starter... I've even cracked the spin on fuel filter to besure its pumping and the filter is full of fuel... it won't start until the second try on the first start of the day...

Acesneights1... are you suggesting I park it nose down hill one night and see if it starts on the first hit? If that fixes the issue are you saying the problem is probably the check valve in the fuel return system or the IP?
 
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appalacious

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Perry, GA
sounds like a fuel issue. The common spots for leaking fuel is, lift pump and fuel filter base. You can put a clear hose coming off the injector pump return and look for bubbles.
what is the function of the injector pump return line? why wouldn't you put the clear hose on the supply line?
 

top_prop

Member
243
8
18
Location
Suffolk, VA
what is the function of the injector pump return line? why wouldn't you put the clear hose on the supply line?
Not an expert but as I understand it:

In the couple diesel engines I've worked on the fuel is constantly being sent to the injectors, but not at enough pressure to 'pop' them and inject the fuel. When the IP needs a cylinder to combust it sends a pressure pulse to that injector, once the pressure rises to the set value of the injector it 'pops' a small amount of fuel in to the precombustion chamber. The fuel is always flowing from the IP to the injectors but they don't inject without that pulse. The system sends a lot of quantity constantly but not pressure... so if its going to flow it has to return or go somewhere or pressure would spike and it would back up and make the fuel pump work harder. Also by sending back to the tank, it helps move the air out of the lines and gives contaminates a path out of the system as well. So the injectors have fuel return lines that link together and then route to one return line that dumps back into the tank.

On a Gm 6.2 there is a return valve that controls how much is let back to the return side (it also ties to the vacuum advance as well if I'm not mistaken). I understand as well on initial start, with the throttle not pushed... its supposed to be wide open so it bleeds air out for the start, but if its too open you may not be getting enough fuel to start. I think that is why if the initial start doesn't 'take' the back of the visor says to depress the throttle about 1/2 way and try again (ie it should close the valve and send a longer pulse to the injectors to inject more fuel). But I'm not 100% on that and need to dig through the TM and let the more experienced folks here chime in.

Anyways, If you take the hose off the top of the IP that links to the return system and replace it with clear hose you can watch for bubbles and return function etc and trouble shoot the return valve/return system/IP. Remember bubles tend to form on the return side from small air leaks that come with old trucks, old lines, loose clamps etc. Air entry allows the fuel to drain out of the injectors on leaky systems so that they have to charge back up with fuel before they reach the pressure where they 'pop'. With a mechanical pump this may take some cranking... similar to the TM method of priming a new fuel filter. That is why I put in an electric pump near the tank... it -should- pressurize the system and purge any air that leaked in out before I hit the starter, and it makes fuel filter changes etc a breeze. My CUCV leaps to life compared to when I had it on the mech pump. But it didn't help my civi J code 6.2 (which is my wife's daily driver so I really baby it... 'if momma aint happy, nobody is happy').

I've been wanting to swap the clear tube in but I've been concerned about heat and diesel compatibility. So I go slow and read alot.... The clear PVC you can get at the big box hardware store isn't rated for heat much, and its definitely not listed as Diesel compatible from what I read... but I'm frustrated and may swap it in for a short while in order to trouble shoot.

hope it helps.

Tom
 
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top_prop

Member
243
8
18
Location
Suffolk, VA
ok... parked my civie J code nose down hill... no change to the start.... no start first hit of starter... fires up second

I've been under the weather, but good enough now to work a little. i swapped in a piece of 1/4" clear pvc on the return line and sprayed the check valve out with break cleaner and the silicone spray... it worked as a check valve both with blowing with my mouth an the spray cans...

i then turned on my electric pump and watched it fill half of the clear return line... i then noticed the area under the ip was wet, and recalled smelling fuel when i helped my wife unload groceries the other day. So I left the electric pump on and checked for leaks... I can't find a source but the entire upper porttion of the block is wet and there was a good puddle in the back of the block (nose up hill). So I whiped up the fuel, and put the air cleaner back on and fired her up... no start until I was about discontinue the first hit when it caught (I'd say that is the typical delayed start on this thing).

The return line filled quickly and I could watch the fuel return. I let it idle and will see how much air is in the line tomorrow, but I'm afraid I've got a weaping/leaking IP and looking for insight.
 

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