Storm Chasing/RV 5 Ton Conversion Questions

[StormCruzzer]

Hey everyone! This first part is basically a repeat of my Noobie introduction thread, but I figured I'd give some background here as well.My name's Travis, I'm 27 with and have a B.S. in meteorology. I work as a Financial Advisor specializing in Life Insurance and Annuities, but also run a Storm Chasing Tour business on the side, StormCruzzer LLC. (Check us out on Facebook and YouTube). I currently own a 2011 Silverado 3500HD Dually that I've converted into a storm chasing truck that I also use as a DD, and although it's not yet finished, I'm working on the designs for the next vehicle (a 5 ton). Here's a quick picture of the storm chasing truck from Hurricane Hermine in September 2016, and it's about to go through some major changes over the next year as we prepare it for SEMA.



If you've ever seen the Discovery TV Series "Storm Chasers," you know there are all kinds of chase vehicles. Some people chase in vehicles build armored vehicles with hydraulic flaps panels and spikes that go down to the ground, anchoring it to the ground and keeping wind from getting under the vehicle. Others like to chase in smaller fuel efficient cars. I took the middle road for the first vehicle (with the idea in mind that it would be the first of many), and built a lightly armored truck (if people are interested I'll list all the mods I've made) to be safe in higher winds, be reliable and durable and capable off road, and be able to carry rescue equipment in the bed to help out after a tornado/hurricane hits. Before choosing the specific vehicle and mods for the first storm chasing vehicle, I put well over 1000 hours (over the course of 8 months) of research into different vehicles and different scenarios we encounter while out chasing, and tried to build the best "all-in-one" vehicle that would do well in all types of storms and situations. Although It's not completely finished yet, I'm now working on designing the next two vehicles, one of which is looking like it'll be a 5 ton unless you can convince me otherwise.

Onto the good stuff! This will be used more for Blizzards and Hurricanes than it will be for tornadoes. The goal of this vehicle is to be able to withstand extremely strong winds while deployed (hydraulic panels and stabilizing arms), be big enough to drive through high flood waters for search and rescue, and have a living quarters where the crew and I can live for a week or two at a time with no outside help if needed. I'm also looking to potentially live on the road while traveling through the Americas for months at a time, and even make it a semi-permanent home - basically an extremely capable, heavily armored RV with a base station with a desk and monitors to monitor the storms. Over the past week I've done about 40 hours of research on 5 tons and deuces and learned quite a lot, but still have a long ways to go. Right now I have my eye on a M923A2 as the base vehicle and converting it to a crew cab. The Cab will blend with the rear box of the truck that will be the living space, so it's easy to traverse between the two, similar to the 5 ton pictured here, but the shape will be more the third picture to help in high winds.


We're planning on rebuilding the cab and rear box from the ground up with 1/4" AR500 steel to keep debris from penetrating the sides in high winds. Like an RV, I'm planning on installing a small shower, toilet, multiple twin size beds, an L-shape desk "command center," a stove, a sink, a mini-fridge, storage, and more. Although it seems like a lot, I've drawn out a few designs that fit everything in. It's basically an armored "tiny home" mounted on the back of a 5 ton. For electrical power in the rear, I'm thinking about mounting 6-8 batteries in the rear drawing power from the main batteries slowly overtime when the vehicle is running, along with being charged by a solar panel system mounted on the roof that can be easily covered if we know we're going to encounter hail or anything else that could cause damage. The entire vehicle, cab and rear, will be insulated as well. I'll get to the hydraulic panels and spikes for protection in high winds later, but I'll leave it at this for now.

I'm also building the vehicle to live in for a good chunk of the year as well as use as an overland vehicle. We've been planning a cross country trip in the stretched StormCruzzer in Summer 2019 while towing our jeep and 1500 to offroad and overland along the way, but this would be an even better vehicle for the job. I really want to make a trip down to the southern tip of South America sometime in the next 5 years as well.

I'm sure I'll have a million different questions as different problems come up along the way, but to start;

1. Am I crazy?

2. Has anyone here ever done something similar and converted their 5 ton or even deuce to an RV?

3. Is water/meth injection a thing for these bigger diesel engines like it is for 3/4 and 1 ton commercial trucks?

4. What are your thoughts on the M923A2 vs other 5 tons or other military vehicles for this project?

5. How do your 5 tons handle in high winds? (60mph+)?

6. Is there anything in particular you think I'm missing I should know about?

7. What are your thoughts on the project in general?

8. What kind of steel should I use? I was thinking AR500 but I know it's more brittle so not sure how it would handle under the stress of when off road.. Just found out about MIL-1 46100 steel but can't find too much about it.. How easy is it to weld? And how does it handle in flexion? Is there another steel that you'd use instead? I'd like the body to be near bulletproof.


Thanks in advance for all replies!

P.S. It's 2am after a long day so this thread is really unorganized and not as thought through as I would have liked, but I'm going to be extremely busy over the next week so I wanted to get this post up now rather than later.

Edit: Couple videos from the past few years. First few years we were in it for the experience and didn't care as much about video footage but we finally bought a good 4K video camera last year.

Simla, Colorado tornadoes (11 total) June 4, 2015. Crew for these videos were friends from Tech and this was their first tornado/tornadoes, and you could hear the over excitement and nervousness in their voice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZOVZO9XWic&list=UUb_UxQ3yD1ERvOtTr-lo39g&index=19
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5-061j-XQM&list=UUb_UxQ3yD1ERvOtTr-lo39g&index=23

Hurricane Matthew, Daytona Beach, FL 2016.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iea7BVQSd_g&list=UUb_UxQ3yD1ERvOtTr-lo39g&index=12

 

[snowtrac nome]

how about starting with an fmtv with LASC cab or up armored cab 5 ton there is no reason to re invent the wheel. the other option may be an fmtv with HIMARS cab seen a few of those for sale they are rare but atleaste the up armord cabs have ballistic glass in them

 

[StormCruzzer]

how about starting with an fmtv with LASC cab or up armored cab 5 ton there is no reason to re invent the wheel. the other option may be an fmtv with HIMARS cab seen a few of those for sale they are rare but atleaste the up armord cabs have ballistic glass in them

Price, customization, and abundance of parts are the main reasons for starting with a stock M923. Even if I did go with an armored cab we'd still have to make a lot of modifications to it. And yeah, cab windows will be replaced with 2" bullet proof glass which will be used for a few windows in the rear as well

 

[gimpyrobb]

What happens when it is blown over on its side?

 

[StormCruzzer]

What happens when it is blown over on its side?

Preventative measures both in a change in the shape of the rear box to increase aerodynamics in a side wind during transit and hydraulic stabilizing arms and panels to deploy if parked and expecting strong winds is the plan. Still a big surface area for wind to catch, but the sides are less than 1/4 the surface area of an 18 wheeler with a trailer, and three feet shorter in overall height.

 

[Trailboss]

I entered the wrong lot number and inadvertently bought a M923 that had been rolled onto it's top by a tornado. With only stake sides and G177 tires, the wind profile was much smaller than your design, but the 22,000 lbs still rolled and the cab was flattened. The spare tire crane provided almost no protection. I would stay with a non-lifted, even lowered, 1-ton dually crew cab pickup as your starting point for windproof modifications.

I'd keep your M923 as a support vehicle stationed out of the tornado's track, but near enough it can be used for rescue after the storm passes.

 

[AndyT]

What happens when it is blown over on its side?

I agree.

Stormcruzzer, I think it would look Flippin awesome... but, don't think would be practical for your purpose.

Non armored 5tons , youre lookin at about 25k lbs. Of top heavy (but awesome) machine that has all the aerodynamics of a brick. In 40+ winds I can imagine it would be like a sail.

Also, I would think a storm CHASE vehicle would have to be nimble? Lord knows I love my 5ton, but she's about as nimble as a fat ballerina haha.

 

[162tcat]

1. Am I crazy?

-Yes

2. Has anyone here ever done something similar and converted their 5 ton or even deuce to an RV?

-Many times, do some searching, that 40 hours wasn't enough I guess.

3. Is it plausible to drop in a Cummins NHC 400 insteadof the 8.3? If so, what other changes will I have to make?

-Why? Do you own stock in a fuel company? Turn up the 8.3 or start with a nhc250 and swap to a 400 and manual trans

4. What are your thoughts on the M923A2 vs other 5 tons or other military vehicles for this project?

-Get a truck that's solid to start with so your not blowing your budget on a clunker. How much are you planning to spend anyway?

5. How do your 5 tons handle in high winds?
(40mph+)?

-Mine does fine but it's wet if raining, wind blows it in all of the cracks.

6. Is there anything in particular you think I'm missing I should know about?

-Bring lots of money. Lots. Also plan on 5k in tools and spare parts. Don't want to be broke down in the path a storm. Need 2 (or more) spare tires or swap the A2 back to duals.

7. What are your thoughts on the project in general?

-sounds expensive





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[98G]

If you're swapping motors anyway, why pay extra for an A2?

Lots of surface area for wind to push on.

I was caught in a sudden storm in NM earlier this year while driving an M923. The wind was truly impressive. Ripped the top off and pounded me with hail. Pushed the truck around, but it didn't roll over. The Werner tractor trailer ahead of me did roll.

Build it to survive a rollover. I don't think you can build it to avoid a rollover.

 

[acme66]

Call me sometime. 406-546-9787

Ken

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[98G]

Actually, with the budget you've got, do it this way:

What you want is an M1070 HET and an M1000 trailer. Carry an OTR-90 on the trailer. Park the HET outside the storm track and drive the OTR into the midst of it...

 

[Swamp Donkey]

View attachment 697507


4. What are your thoughts on the M923A2 vs other 5 tons or other military vehicles for this project?

6. Is there anything in particular you think I'm missing I should know about?

I'll start with the picture above. There is not near enough airflow through that grill. Go with a louvered grill using either overlapping flat bar on 45° angles or use overlapping angle iron. Much less air flow restriction and more effective at protecting from debris because there is no straight line to the radiator. Take a look at some of the MRAP grills.



4. If you want an A2 then why not spend the money for one with the ROPS cab. Less to design and build and everything in the cab is already integrated, to include air ride seats. I think they are sealed better too. If it's raining outside, then it's also raining inside with the standard cabs.



6. You mentioned tying the rear box into the cab. Don't underestimate the amount of frame flex in these trucks. Many have tackled this when building standard RV type vehicles, but it is something that definately needs to be considered. In standard form, everything is designed to flex separately.



Happened across this one on Google a while back. Maybe something useful to you here.

 

[Jbulach]

And the blue tarp completes the armor package!


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[firefox]

I wonder how difficult it would be to design hydraulic arms that could be used to right the
vehicle if it were flipped over?

 

[Robo McDuff]

Why not go the other way around? As mentioned in earlier posts, use a smaller car for close-up chasing, and a large heavy car to stay at the edges.

Sounds like you are making something big top-heavy and slow even heavier but not really safer. We used an old European Citroen BX for after-flooding help driving through shallow rivers. I had four of them and clocked a few 100k miles in all weather, including Dutch North Sea storms. These Citroen's have the famous hydraulic suspensions, making it possible to raise or lower the body significantly. On Highway level, you have about 4-5 inches room under the car, not much for wind to get a grip on. In the highest level for terrain or changing tires, you are about 15-20 inches higher. You have to go slow and it bounces around like crazy, but certainly the 4x4 is great. They are very aerodynamic and with the low profile, very stable in hard winds. Put some extra weight low in the body and it will outperform a large very heavy truck in very bad weather. The diesel version gets about 30 mpg and does not care about wet weather, these engines just keep driving. Also, they are very easy to tow, weighing in around 2K lbs.

Then again, they very much go against the US grain: they are small, French, fuel-efficient, and very useful with low power.



My private BX at left, the Toyota Landcruiser from our non-profit at right. The pic on the right shows were we were helping with the aftermath of large flooding in eastern Czech Republic.

 

[StormCruzzer]

Wow, thank you all for your feedback! A whole lot more than I expected. I also should have probably mentioned that I'm looking to live out of it for a good part of the year and use it for overlanding as well.

I entered the wrong lot number and inadvertently bought a M923 that had been rolled onto it's top by a tornado. With only stake sides and G177 tires, the wind profile was much smaller than your design, but the 22,000 lbs still rolled and the cab was flattened. The spare tire crane provided almost no protection. I would stay with a non-lifted, even lowered, 1-ton dually crew cab pickup as your starting point for windproof modifications.

I'd keep your M923 as a support vehicle stationed out of the tornado's track, but near enough it can be used for rescue after the storm passes.

My post may have been a bit misleading - I'm not building nor designing it to intercept tornadoes as they're far too dynamic and have too much vertical suction. Would need something like the TIV2 to safetly intercept one. With the Hydraulic arms I designed I'm not to worried about strong winds when the vehicle is stationary intercepting a strong squall line or Hurricane, especially since I'd be able to point the front of the vehicle into the wind. A vehicle similar to the TIV2 for tornadoes is in my future plans, but it will be much smaller and not possible to live in on the road.

I agree.

Stormcruzzer, I think it would look Flippin awesome... but, don't think would be practical for your purpose.

Non armored 5tons , youre lookin at about 25k lbs. Of top heavy (but awesome) machine that has all the aerodynamics of a brick. In 40+ winds I can imagine it would be like a sail.

Also, I would think a storm CHASE vehicle would have to be nimble? Lord knows I love my 5ton, but she's about as nimble as a fat ballerina haha.

Depending on chase terrain and chase style, nimble is relative. If you're experienced and good at navigating and are familiar with the terrain, the best place to be is slightly south of and ahead of the storm, which is relatively easy to do. In the 5 ton we'd stay a bit further ahead depending on storm speed, but it wouldn't be a bad adjustment. The hardest thing we'd have to do if we're in a big rush is make "U-Turns", which I know is no small feat, but most of the "U-Turns" we do are on dirt roads with plenty of room to go off on the sides of the road. That's another benefit of the StormCruzzer as is.. On dirt roads even with small drops offs I don't have to make a multiple point turn, I can just drive off the side and do a U-Turn.

1. Am I crazy?

-Yes

2. Has anyone here ever done something similar and converted their 5 ton or even deuce to an RV?

-Many times, do some searching, that 40 hours wasn't enough I guess.

3. Is it plausible to drop in a Cummins NHC 400 insteadof the 8.3? If so, what other changes will I have to make?

-Why? Do you own stock in a fuel company? Turn up the 8.3 or start with a nhc250 and swap to a 400 and manual trans

4. What are your thoughts on the M923A2 vs other 5 tons or other military vehicles for this project?

-Get a truck that's solid to start with so your not blowing your budget on a clunker. How much are you planning to spend anyway?

5. How do your 5 tons handle in high winds?
(40mph+)?

-Mine does fine but it's wet if raining, wind blows it in all of the cracks.

6. Is there anything in particular you think I'm missing I should know about?

-Bring lots of money. Lots. Also plan on 5k in tools and spare parts. Don't want to be broke down in the path a storm. Need 2 (or more) spare tires or swap the A2 back to duals.

7. What are your thoughts on the project in general?

-sounds expensive



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2. 40 hours is nowhere near enough haha. The only full RV conversion I've seen was an m1083.

3. 8.3 is enough, just didn't know how much of a process and what the downsides would be in the 400. I'm guessing fuel economy would be a big downside then

4. I don't currently have a budget limit set as I'm still trying to get everything figured out. I may end up living out of the vehicle most of the year, so if that's the case then budget would go way up. I'd also look to get a good chunk from sponsors as I have in the StormCruzzer.

5. We'd rebuild a lot of the cab so everything would be sealed and rain wouldn't be a problem.

6. Would likely swap the rears to duals, and would definitely have all the tools and spare parts we could carry with us, we do the same in the StormCruzzer as well. Always better to be over prepared than under prepared.

If you're swapping motors anyway, why pay extra for an A2?

Lots of surface area for wind to push on.

I was caught in a sudden storm in NM earlier this year while driving an M923. The wind was truly impressive. Ripped the top off and pounded me with hail. Pushed the truck around, but it didn't roll over. The Werner tractor trailer ahead of me did roll.

Build it to survive a rollover. I don't think you can build it to avoid a rollover.

Looking like I'd stick with the 8.3.

Lots of surface for wind to push on, but 3ft shorter than a Semi, 1/4 the surface area for the wind to push on, and better angles so wind force wouldn't be straight horizontal.

I'm expecting to be blown around a bit still not at all convinced that 40-60mph winds would roll me.

Either way, it'll have an extremely strong cage frame to protect from rollover. Someone below suggested looking into building hydraulic arms to flip me right side in case of a roll over so that's definitely something to look into.<br>

Actually, with the budget you've got, do it this way:

What you want is an M1070 HET and an M1000 trailer. Carry an OTR-90 on the trailer. Park the HET outside the storm track and drive the OTR into the midst of it...

I'll start with the picture above. There is not near enough airflow through that grill. Go with a louvered grill using either overlapping flat bar on 45° angles or use overlapping angle iron. Much less air flow restriction and more effective at protecting from debris because there is no straight line to the radiator. Take a look at some of the MRAP grills.

<img src="https://www.steelsoldiers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=697536&stc=1" attachmentid="697536" alt="" id="vbattach_697536" class="previewthumb">

4. If you want an A2 then why not spend the money for one with the ROPS cab. Less to design and build and everything in the cab is already integrated, to include air ride seats. I think they are sealed better too. If it's raining outside, then it's also raining inside with the standard cabs.

<img src="https://www.steelsoldiers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=697533&stc=1" attachmentid="697533" alt="" id="vbattach_697533" class="previewthumb">

6. You mentioned tying the rear box into the cab. Don't underestimate the amount of frame flex in these trucks. Many have tackled this when building standard RV type vehicles, but it is something that definately needs to be considered. In standard form, everything is designed to flex separately.<br>

<img src="https://www.steelsoldiers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=697538&stc=1" attachmentid="697538" alt="" id="vbattach_697538" class="previewthumb">

Happened across this one on Google a while back. Maybe something useful to you here.

<img src="https://www.steelsoldiers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=697539&stc=1" attachmentid="697539" alt="" id="vbattach_697539" class="previewthumb">

And the blue tarp completes the armor package!


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Good point about the grille. The truck I posted was just an example of a heavily armored m923, actual truck would look much different.

4. I'll definitely look into that, but I don't mind spending extra time designing and building the truck if it suits my needs more.

6. That's an extremely good point that I somehow overlooked. I'm also thinking more about leaving it as a single cab now with a separate enclosed box in the rear, but I still want to be able to traverse the two without having to leave the vehicle so that's something else I need to figure out.

That vehicle is interesting for sure.. Wonder what the **** it was built for ha

I wonder how difficult it would be to design hydraulic arms that could be used to right the<br>
vehicle if it were flipped over?

YES! Need to try to figure out how plausible that would be

 

[98G]

Radio said wind speeds were 70mph in the storm i was in and it didn't roll, but felt like it might.

A box starting from the rear of the bed and replacing the bed and the cab up to the firewall. Door on the back only.

I was mostly kidding about the HET and tracked armor, but for what it would cost to customize a 5ton to this extent the cost wouldn't be that much more....

 

[StormCruzzer]

Radio said wind speeds were 70mph in the storm i was in and it didn't roll, but felt like it might.

A box starting from the rear of the bed and replacing the bed and the cab up to the firewall. Door on the back only.

I was mostly kidding about the HET and tracked armor, but for what it would cost to customize a 5ton to this extent the cost wouldn't be that much more....

That seems much more likely than what I've been hearing so far. I feel like it would take sustained 70mph winds hitting exactly broadside for to flip the truck, and only if it was stationary. The faster your forward momentum (not speed) is, the stronger the crosswind has to be to roll the truck as well. Budget for the build and everything in the interior and rear is likely going to be 125-150k, but I'm thinking I can get a good bit of that sponsored. An M1070 would be awesome to build off of but the price for the base vehicle is 1/3-1/2 the total max budget haha

 

[firefox]

Another Idea I had would be to construct four legs that would swing out when needed.
Long enough to keep the vehicle from being flipped.
They could be variable length controlled by hydraulics to be able to avoid obsticles.
At the ends could be wheels also under hydraulic control.
This might be easier and cheaper than my first suggestion. A lot of thought should go into the
design to account for real world conditions.

 

[StormCruzzer]

Another Idea I had would be to construct four legs that would swing out when needed.
Long enough to keep the vehicle from being flipped.
They could be variable length controlled by hydraulics to be able to avoid obsticles.
At the ends could be wheels also under hydraulic control.
This might be easier and cheaper than my first suggestion. A lot of thought should go into the
design to account for real world conditions.

Actually mentioned this in my second or third post on this thread Great minds think alike

Have a crude design so far, would have an arm on each side of the top of the truck running from front to back and one running from back to front. Could rotate them down when needed and have them be able to hydraulically extend a foot or two. Would also have hydraulic spikes mounted in an X shape on the front and rear that could go down deep into the ground if we were expecting extremely strong winds. Very similar to the TIV2 here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozdYlt9blj4