strange battery symptoms while troubleshooting

[alger]

thx, friend. ill post results tomorrow. helps to know if i have cards to play or need to plead...i just struggle with the concept of spending alot of $$ to have something fixed and it is patched in a way that wouldn't hold. IO am guilty of cutting small corners on a troubling jobsite, but wouldnt fathom charging customer to replace a part i recommended patching...biz 101 says never recommend something you knew to be unsatisfactory to the ignorant...and the question of "walloered ou8t bolts and not being able to find the right length bothers me. before tow last week my foreman crawled underneath and said the starter was big and said 24v on it...

 

[M1008driver]

before tow last week my foreman crawled underneath and said the starter was big and said 24v on it...

That sounds like the original direct drive starter. Not a bad thing if it works.

The only reason I mentioned the Roscommon 12 volt conversion is because you have half of it done with the gp resistor bypass and because of the extra starter solenoid. The conversion would bypass the later as it would not be needed.

It will still cost you a new 12 volt starter (don't forget the new size bracket for the OSGR starter) and you will probably need someone to help you. Some here cringe at the thought and others swear by it.

Because of what your mechanic did people will be reluctant to help because they don't know what he did.

http://www.jatonkam35s.com/jatonkaCUCV-TMdownloadpage.htm

EDIT- I don't even know what to say about the tranny housing, but it sounds like it needs to be fixed too or you will have other troubles.

 

[alger]

Wahoo!thx to you guys i was able to ask the right questions and fot very specific answers. at least as specific as time would allow. here's the questions followed by answer from local reputable shop that worked on it before.

q. has the truck been converted to 12v?
a. no
q: is it still a 24v starter
a: yes
q: what is the extra solenoid for?
a: Its a fix for the starter relay problem
(i had lotsa questions, so to get at least some info on all i settled for this)

Transmission/starter

q. my 2nd hand intel from my dad was that the BOLTS on the transmission were too short and the holes were "walloewd" out so we need a new transmission housing. In fact, due to excessive vibration from not-serviced bolts by former owner (loose) the dowel pins had "wallowed out" the aluminum transmission case. Therefore, the bolts he replaced had worked loose and one had sheared. This had caused the starter to mis-align and caused jam of starter. he suggested new tranny housing, but said a longer dowel pin might fix the problem. He couldn't find one, but i thought yall might be able to help. he said a pair of 1.5" dowel bins might allow it to get more bite. this will stabilize the unit and stop vibration which is causing bolts top loosen. in the mean time i should check tighness of housing bolts daily. this requires a ratchet with 9/16th socket and 2.5' wobble extensiomn for top bolts. if it locks again before i get fixed, he said to work the main belt back and forth to disengage...

does this make sense?
q:

 

[M1008driver]

When you change the trans housing I would change the flexplate too. I bought mine from Oreilly's. Unless you are desperate for transportation I would not trust that truck until it was fixed.

You can even find a TH400 trans for a not to bad price, maybe even better from a salvage yard if you are short on cash. Make sure it is the 4x4 trans. Just ideas.

Show your mech the instructions for the doghead mod some day and ask him how his was any better. It's not so be gentle so you don't po him.

in the mean time i should check tighness of housing bolts daily. this requires a ratchet with 9/16th socket and 2.5' wobble extensiomn for top bolts. if it locks again before i get fixed, he said to work the main belt back and forth to disengage...

does this make sense?

That's crazy to me. Why would you want to crawl under your truck everyday and why risk being stranded? Get it fixed.

Keep reading and keep learning. Don't allow anymore unapproved mods. If I use a mech I usually show up with the parts I want used and that I got from reading this forum. If they don't agree I find someone else. Peace!

 

[alger]

general idea i come up with is that changing the housing is as much as a $1200 rebuilt tranny?...hence the thought of the dowel fix... after looking at schematics, how can the dowel pins hold as much as 8 bolts? or allow them to get loose after they are tight?...what else might cause sheared tranny housing bolts?...10-4 on researching all mods prior to letting any work be done....$1200 after 3k in repairs on a truck ive put >200mi is klling me. cvurrent tranny feels strong, unsure about a used, rebuilt $1200...help!

 

[M1008driver]

I would call some trans shops about replacing the housing and servicing that trans since it was working before.. Those prices sound high to me.

Most people buy these vehicles to work on them themselves and it is not always a daily driver. Shops always cost more, but sometimes needed.

 

[wayne pick]

Hea alger, If your housing is shot, Any attempt to machine-bore out or resize mounting bolts or dowel pins could result in annother failure. If anyone is willing to do that for you, they are just taking your money. My ol man had a saying, "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken $hit, it tastes funny." Find a trans that has had a recent rebuild or get a 4x4 TH400 from a junkie and have it rebuilt at a local trans shop that has a good reputation. They are cheap to rebuild. Some advice- If you keep going arround in circles with the same result, members here will be reluctant to help you. Trust me, i've seen it. Keep posting, you'll get it done.

 

[mistaken1]

The engine and transmission mate together. The engine applies rotational torque to the transmission which passes it on to the drive-shaft (ultimately).

The engine and transmission should mate solidly. There should be no rotational play in the mating.

If the transmission mounting bolt holes and dowel holes are damaged (out of round, enlarged) then that will allow rotational play. That play will allow the holes to continue enlarging (positive feedback loop, the looseness causes movement which causes more looseness which causes more movement etc.).

Longer dowel pins could extend into the original holes or new properly sized deeper holes to prevent rotational movement. The bolts themselves, when tight can prevent that movement but the continued application of rotational torque will loosen them (hence the recommendation to check/tighten them daily) and/or shear them (as you have already found out).

The correct repair is an undamaged housing, everything else is a band-aid to buy you time to save money for the correct repair.

The center-lines of the damaged holes are no longer the same center-lines of the original holes. Drilling them out without using precision equipment will create alignment issues.

 

[Ken_86gt]

^ agree 100%

 

[alger]

k, got good vids of both electrical and starter/tranny issue...doesnt seem like tranny is problem...6-8 shims in starter bolt...dust cover is cracked and even has A chunk missing. looks to me/us that the real issue is no starter bracket. this causes the starter to misalign, and with 24v of torque i imagine would be the culprit that broke the dust cover. the electrical is totally off the map, too. got the intermediate tm and read/studied extensively and lo and behold, it is completely different. i neither did any of this, nor did i ok it. my plan is to take it to the chevy dealership and ask what needs to be done to completely restore it to factory wiring, new dust cover for tranny, starter, and bracket...also looks like he cut original wires on alternators, so that will be replaced as well. i don't know what was done to these systems previously, so it seems to me if he worked on them, he is responsible...i promise, guys, once restored by dealer i will turn all wrenches myself. please watch vids and stop me if i am wrong. thanks again

 

[M1008driver]

Try and find someone with a CUCV and compare. I doubt the dealer will know what to do. Whoever hacked your truck had no clue what he was doing. You have so many problems I don't know what else to tell you. Good luck with your projects.

 

[alger]

detailed vids of first of two issues...electrical hijack by mechanic...if anyone knows of a mech qualified to restore wiring to factory specs, please im me. Anywhere in the arkansas area...thx...

 

[alger]

ok, vids of problem number 2...starter/tranny issue...looks to me that if the starter had the bracket instALLed, he wouldn't have neede 5-8 shims...also looks like it is the culprit for broken dust cover.

 

[mistaken1]

The original direct drive starters need shims. How many is a function of the unique combination of starter, engine and transmission.

Bracket is most definitely needed. My understanding is that the original brackets are hard to find.

The brackets for the newer gear reduction starters can be found. These starters are not supposed to need shims.

Those of us who live outside urban areas do not always have enough bandwidth to open large video files.

 

[alger]

theory

sorry bout the big files...wanted to give all detail possible..i understand now the alignment of tranny and block is crucial to starter alignment. but i see no signs of wear on the bolts in the tRAnny housing. i, and a good bud who is very grease capable think since he had to warranty 3 stsrters already, his pride isinvolved and he told me to go to a near to him tranny shop and have them call him to tellthetranny guy 1st hsnd whst is wrong. my question now, is the torque of a 24v starter sufficient enough to misalign starter and cause lockups? (if no brACE AT ALL IS PRESENT? i know the answer, but want to have all facts i can when i get there. ill post pix, too. since he screwed the wiring horribly without my consent and misdiGNOSED The trann/starter issue i have no prob going for my $$ back AND a restored truck. i would also be more relaxed if he hadn'e looked me in the eye and said a new tranny was only fix...looks to me a properly mounted starter with bracket and new dust cover is what is needed for prob 2.......3k to fix an 87 truck was killing me, so hopefully he'll settle.

 

[mistaken1]

The bracket is needed. Without the starter can bind and/or break starter mounting bolts.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/17825-starting-problem.html#post180532

Did you look deep in the bolt hole? You may find whats left of the bolt in the threads. If it is a broken bolt, it's not that big of a deal. Most of the time the bolt either loosens up or the rear support bracket is missing causing the starter to twist and shear off a bolt. You can actually see a starter twist without that rear bracket. There is a jig you can buy for your drill to keep alignment when drilling out the broken piece if you have to go that route.

If you advance search for "broken+starter+bolt" in the CUCV forum you will find plenty of info.

 

[alger]

thx, friends...i read up on the bracket issue last night, but wnted clarification before i file a suit against him...im gonna get it back to stock and turn every bolt when the warranty runs out from restore...thx again

 

[M1008driver]

You need to fix your truck in project sections. Trans housing and starter issues to get running because you were running before. Then go after the electrical issues. If you succeed you will have a intimate relationship (understanding) with your truck when your done.

 

[M1008driver]

I downloaded and watched your videos. Most of the original equipment is still there, but modified. If you have the gear reduction starter you can get the bracket at the GM parts store or off the internet. There is also a brace that goes above the starter. Something to watch for. If you have the original direct starter I don't know where.

You are not going to find a CUCV mechanic unless you find someone with a CUCV near where you live. That way you could compare your mods and original. If that mech can reverse what he did go for it. I don't have much faith he can.

Watch for CUCV's in your area and see if they will talk to you. I think you can recover from this, but not without some help. I also wonder what he did to your ignition system...

 

[alger]

hey fellas...i surrender..whole thing has been a nightmare. I think this old girl and i are not compatible, and her war of atricion has worn me down. I have given this much more than i could afford, and im sure someone will benefit from my angst. i hope so, anyway. make me an offer, she has $925 in tires thatr have less than 100 miles. will sell tires with or without, but not tires only till she is outta here. the high end rockwork biz died nwith the economy and i am sermi-retired and living in the country. would like to trade for a jeep or small 4wd with sound mechanics and a GAS engine, but body can be shot. Street legal, safe to drive, 4wd, and heat only requirements. Safe meaning she'll stay on the road. Make me a cash offer if not...thanks for yall's help...