Stuck backhoe bucket pin on SEE

[The FLU farm]

Here's the current situation; On the lower pin holding the bucket, everything moves freely except the links going up to the cylinder.
Or more correctly, that's my assessment.

Started with trying to drive the pin out with a sledge in normal fashion after having sprayed things down with JB-80 . Then used a puller hooked over the bucket's ear, on both sides, which is how I know that the pin moves in the bucket. Thought I had meaningful movement, but it was just the ears bending.

Thought that the sleeve between the links was what was stuck, but it now rotates freely. This morning I started applying a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone (supposedly the supreme penetrating fluid).
Tried putting the puller on the inside of the links, thereby putting all the force on the area where the pin goes through the link. No luck. The pin is starting to get deformed by the puller, so now I'm really hoping that someone has a better idea.
The only thing I can think of trying is to undo the pin at the cylinder and then try rotating the links relative to each other, breaking one of them free, but I don't like the idea of having too many loose connections. It could be tricky to get things reassembled when working alone.

 

[DiverDarrell]

Have you tried heat yet?

 

[The FLU farm]

No, not yet. Partially because I'm hesitant to heat up cast parts, but mostly due to the fact that the oxy acetylene setup is inaccessible.
I've thought about trying to retrieve it with a crane. Now may be a good time to finally try doing that.

 

[M543A2]

I have never had a negative result from heating cast parts, even to dull red color. It may be the best and only way.

 

[The FLU farm]

Thanks, good to hear that. Heat it is then...unless the ATF/acetone has done its thing over night.

 

[Welder1]

I work on heavy equipment frequently and heat will help you here. You probably will need a rosebud to throw enough heat get the part hot enough. I would heat it up to a dull red where the pin goes thru and let it cool some then strike it again and see if it moves. It may take several heat cycles to get it out. The last resort is to burn the center of the pin out with a Caldo torch so it will shrink. The heat should not bother the cast steel part as long as no rapid cooling takes place. Good luck and be safe wear safety glasses and gloves.


Eddie Cannon

 

[The FLU farm]

Thanks for the info, Eddie. I did indeed get the safety glasses out towards the end yesterday, fearing that the puller would come unglued.
Good point on using a rosebud...but finding it may not be as easy as getting the trapped oxy acetylene set out in the open. I really do need to sort stuff out in the garage.

One more thing I'll try today (now that you guys have me thinking about using more brutal methods) is to try smacking the end of the link with the sledge. Preferably while the pin is under tension from the puller. It usually works for getting tie rod ends out of steering arms, so may be worth a try.

 

[porkysplace]

Thanks for the info, Eddie. I did indeed get the safety glasses out towards the end yesterday, fearing that the puller would come unglued.
Good point on using a rosebud...but finding it may not be as easy as getting the trapped oxy acetylene set out in the open. I really do need to sort stuff out in the garage.

One more thing I'll try today (now that you guys have me thinking about using more brutal methods) is to try smacking the end of the link with the sledge. Preferably while the pin is under tension from the puller. It usually works for getting tie rod ends out of steering arms, so may be worth a try.

From your 1st post it sounds like you already damaged the pin beating on the cast steel links will damage them . Spend your time getting some heat on the pin . If you bend , mushroom the pin pin and links you are going to be shelling out some big money .

 

[The FLU farm]

I wouldn't call the pin damaged. The center indentation in the one end is now larger from the cone on the puller, and the longer, tapered end of the pin is deformed from (mostly) beating on it and from the puller.
So far today, I took a chance and drove out the pin at the upper end of one link, at the cylinder, enough to get that link free in that end. It can be rotated with a sledge, or a High-Lift, so it's not exactly moving freely on the stuck pin.
That certainly explains why the puller didn't work, trying to move the pin in both links.
Getting the torch out will be a PM job as I try to postpone any lifting to late in the day. No point in having the back hurt all day.

 

[The FLU farm]

Okay, one link down, one to go. It can now be rotated by hand, but barely.
Now for the harder part; getting the second link freed up. I'll probably try reassembling it all, then immobilizing the pin and use the backhoe to move the link relative to the pin.
How to make the pin stop turning? Weld a bracket to it? Or a big nut?
If I do the latter, I could try rotating the pin with the 1-inch hydraulic impact. It's supposedly good for 2,500 ft.lbs. so something should give. My weld, most likely.
Anything to avoid getting the torch out, right?

 

[Migginsbros]

Is the center spacer free on the pin or not? If not free (on our SEE bucket pin its free), try to get it off/ roll it off with chissel and hammer at the open seem. Grind with stripes of sand paper. If you dont get it off , perhapst you can widen or free the spacer on the pin and get fluid in.
Get the deformed ends of the pin shaped with an angel grinder to original or smaler diameter. Even a little little bit widening will seeze the pin. Only an idea. Good luck.

 

[The FLU farm]

The spacer is moving freely, although at first it was stuck, too.
Removing it may very well be a good idea as it would allow cleaning the pin in that area between the links before trying to get the pin out, like you guys did. Making a replacement from tubing is easy enough. Thanks for that tip!
Judging by all the rusty colored runoff that's resulting from liberal applications of the ATF/acetone mix, there's no shortage of corrosion in there. I've kept the seam in the spacer facing up, making it easier to get the penetrating stuff in there.

 

[73m819]

If you heat the cast, allow it to cool down SLOWLY, a fast cool down will make a crack, also when heating cast widen the heat area as much as you can with in reason, this will also help to prevent cracks, there is a certain temp you do not want to go over or you are looking for a better chance of cracking (forgot what it is), use heat sticks to tell what the temp is. heat sticks melt at different temps, my set goes up to I think to 1500 deg. the jump is every 50 deg. to a point then jumps by a 100 deg., besides cast, heat sticks are needed when hardening a piece of metal with a oil quench, you have to have the right temp for the metal when hardening or you end up with a hardened but BRITTLE piece which will crack/break under load.

 

[The FLU farm]

Thanks for that good advice, Ron. Although now it looks like that pin could be removed without any heat.
No, I'm not betting on it, but after following Migginsbros' suggestion and removing the sleeve it appears feasible. Predictably, there was a fair amount of crud in there, but surprisingly the worst corrosion was at what's the top end when the backhoe is stowed.
It makes perfect sense to remove the sleeve, and I wish I had thought of that. Trying to push the cruddy center portion of the pin out through tight fitting bushings would've been a lot of work.
With the much improved access to the area at the links, the ATF/acetone can work its magic far better. Tomorrow will tell how well.

 

[marchplumber]

Thanks for that good advice, Ron. Although now it looks like that pin could be removed without any heat.
No, I'm not betting on it, but after following Migginsbros' suggestion and removing the sleeve it appears feasible. Predictably, there was a fair amount of crud in there, but surprisingly the worst corrosion was at what's the top end when the backhoe is stowed.View attachment 670907
It makes perfect sense to remove the sleeve, and I wish I had thought of that. Trying to push the cruddy center portion of the pin out through tight fitting bushings would've been a lot of work.
With the much improved access to the area at the links, the ATF/acetone can work its magic far better. Tomorrow will tell how well.

Following along here. How do you like the acetone/ATF mix? Been quite a few threads here lately about "corrosion" and "rust"....... Always willing to learn especially with you get some insight from the "old timers".............Not many know about temps and such. KGR is a good source of info on all things "heavy" LMBO!!

I get amazed how such small particles can withstand/resist SO much force.... incredible

 

[The FLU farm]

Tony, I came across an article where some outfit had tested the more common penetrants, and also the ATF/acetone mix. That mix scored so much better than even the best of the best known penetrating oils that it wasn't funny.
That was probably 10 or 15 years ago, but I never did get around to try for myself until now.
I'm not sure how the bushings will react, but at this point I don't really care. Rusty colored stuff keeps running down from the areas being soaked, and that's a very good sign, I think.

 

[The FLU farm]

I hate being a quitter. Borrowed a better puller today, and used the air chisel (with appropriate flat bits) in an effort to rattle things loose, but no luck.
As seen in the photo, at the link that now can be moved, rust colored residue is flowing out with each application of the 50/50 A/A mix.
Not so on the stuck side - although it did start to look like some was coming out from there, too, late this afternoon.

With this being day three of what should've been a 30 minute bucket switch, and probably five hours invested so far, I'm getting tired of this task.
If that pin is still stuck in the link by the time the new pin I ordered today shows up, I'm cutting the old one. Yes, I figured that the best way to get it loose would be to spend $40 on a replacement (plus whatever four new snap rings and shipping comes to, probably about $55 total).
So now the pin is under tension and will be treated to more A/A with some frequency.

Meanwhile I'll return to the fun and games of fixing the air leaks and finding out what's wrong with the fuel pickup on the parts SEE. Stay tuned for the most likely disappointing conclusion.

 

[marchplumber]

Understand the frustration.....

Also understand ordering new pin....=)

Didn't get stuck in a day or two, probably won't get "un" stuck quickly either.......Seems like the path you're following is bearing some fruit......Best of luck

 

[Jbulach]

...Weld a bracket to it? Or a big nut?
If I do the latter, I could try rotating the pin with the 1-inch hydraulic impact. It's supposedly good for 2,500 ft.lbs. so something should give....

If you have a new pin coming I would try welding a big nut on the tapered end. Sounds like a good idea to me!

 

[The FLU farm]

That nut welding idea sounded good until I realized that I don't have a 2-3/8" impact socket. It would've been the perfect nut, too, fitting fine over the tapered end of the pin, and already sliced in half (needed to make a spacer for a gooseneck trailer ball).
New pin not not, it would be easy enough to remove the nut afterwards - or it could be left in place for that matter. I'll root around for a smaller nut, and I might be able to borrow a 1-inch drive socket that fits. Whichever comes first.
If nothing else, it'd be the perfect opportunity to finally try the 1-inch impact. And potentially go for a wild ride, trying to hang onto it.

But I don't think there's any point in welding a nut to the pin if it can't be used with at least a 3/4-inch impact. Regular wrenches and sockets probably wouldn't do much good. After all, the links are close to two feet long, and with a 4-foot pry bar and good leverage, the first one still took some work to break loose.
Heat? Yeah, once I have a way to apply some meaningful twisting force to that pin, heat could come in very handy. Plus it'd be interesting to see how well all that A/A burns.