That thread again? Towing with a 5ton...

[04yfzkid]

I know this is probably the most asked question and I apologize for asking it again, I know the general concerns of it being loud, hot, and generally uncomfortable to drive a military vehicle, these are easily overcomed for me. If it's spraying it with rhino lining, adding dynomat ( or a similar product) and adding carpet and a headliner that is easy work. Doing a cab swap is really no big deal either as I have access to several fab shops to make the journey easy. Where I am stuck at is towing an 18k pound trailer. I have no problem going slow up hill, dealing with the 5 ton problems, or what ever else is thrown my way. I'm looking for actual info on towing trailers and for research I'd love to drag trailer in the sand where I want it. Being that I'm in California getting my CDL is not an object either. Adding a turbo to a non-turbo truck is not a problem as well is not a problem either. The 24v issues is not a big deal either. I could easily spend 50k 0n an f-450 or Kodiak with a bed but those are not what I want.


So here is what I am asking. What 5 ton (with a troop bed) is the best for towing, and what do I need to do to the truck to make it bitchen for towing on hills.

 

[rosco]

No stock answer. Just get the best one you can afford, and start towing stuff. As you get experience, you'll learn what is best.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Someone pass it around!

 

[SCM35A2]

No stock answer. Just get the best one you can afford, and start towing stuff. As you get experience, you'll learn what is best.

Agreed 100%, I hooked up every trailer my parents had & taught myself.

 

[Jbulach]

...So here is what I am asking. What 5 ton (with a troop bed) is the best for towing, and what do I need to do to the truck to make it bitchen for towing on hills.

8.3 vs NC250 or 8.9ISX vs Big Cam, hopefully we’ll soon find out!

I myself think a little Detroit would be bitchen on the hills.


Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....

Gimpy pass the popcorn...

 

[73m819]

Talk to Simp, he has done it +

 

[swbradley1]

Talk to Simp, he has done it +

When he pulled in a couple of weeks ago to the farm and said he had done 9,500 miles in the previous two weeks in his MV I'd say it's more like++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It wears me out thinking about towing that trailer, let alone with the M915 we loaded on it.

 

[04yfzkid]

No stock answer. Just get the best one you can afford, and start towing stuff. As you get experience, you'll learn what is best.

I appreciate the answer and this was the response I was expecting. Maybe I should add a little information. I'm still a youngin at 26 but I've owned a close to 40 different cars I went from a 100hp ford ranger to a 3.4 whipple mustang cobra that made 750ftlbs (to the tire) at 2500 rpm and didn't crash it. I later decided to turbo it so I could turn down the boost and run 91 because e85 was hard to find outside of my local city. I was told that building a 3 link offroad prerunner (trophy truck for those who don't know what a prerunner is) would never work. Well I did that too and found out why it was a bad idea, but after the whole experience I would say it was not that bad of an idea. Currently I am eating ramen noodles so I can afford my duramax while finishing my engineering degree. So if a 5 ton really doesn't suit the job I will always have a back up vehicle to tow a trailer to the desert.

I am not calling you out in anyway but I figured this would be a good post to explain myself. One thing I hate is searching for vehicles (I try real hard to only buy good deals) but not knowing what I should buy.

Someone pass it around!


View attachment 720732

I figured I'd atleast get the Michael Jackson gif eating pop corn.

Agreed 100%, I hooked up every trailer my parents had & taught myself.

It's not learning that I have problem with it's just making sure I start with the correct platform to focus my time and energy.

For those of you didn't piss of yet I'll put it another way, bobbing or doing a crew cab swap is really not a big deal to me to put things in perspective. I really don't mind the work and I have a lot of people behind me to make the job easy.

 

[74M35A2]

Why do you want a 6x6 to tow on-road (assumption here)? Doubling as a toy (then I get it, kind of)? Otherwise, buy a used 10 year old class 6-7 single rear axle diesel stake type truck or tractor and be done with it. Depends on how often you'll be doing it, and if it is a toy when not.

 

[04yfzkid]

Why do you want a 6x6 to tow on-road (assumption here)? Doubling as a toy (then I get it, kind of)? Otherwise, buy a used 10 year old class 6-7 single rear axle diesel stake type truck or tractor and be done with it. Depends on how often you'll be doing it, and if it is a toy when not.

The short answer is because it's cool and I've wanted one since I was a little kid.

The long answer is because I like being different but also I also like being the support guy. I take a lot of pride in being the guy that can get done what most people can't. For example programming ham radio's is a mystery for most people but we use them in all of our desert toys. Instead of making an appointment and taking up half the day to go drive somewhere so an expert can do it, I taught myself so all my friends call me. The places we frequent for using our desert toys people get stuck all the time. I want to be the guy that can pull them with ease. Sure I could buy a nice solid axle diesel truck with a decent lift, big tires, and lockers and be done, but that's not what I am after. I have probably a good 3 - 4 years before I am ready to purchase but I'd like to get my research done ahead of time.

 

[Jbulach]

Don’t mind 74m35a2, he’s preoccupied with trying to figure out how to swap an engine with a chisel, and missed the beach part.

No one piszed here. You just asked the perfect question that has been covered and typicaly turned into a sh*t storm of 8.3 vs nc250, and CTIS haters!

My .02, I’d go with an M925A2.
Winch on front so you can try to find an anchor if you get stuck.
CTIS so you can quickly air down the tires as you pulling up to the beach.
8.3 is simpler to turn up the power to help with the hills, but you will quickly get past the limit of the transmission.

M923a2 is same truck, but no winch, also don’t rule out the FMTV or LMTV...

3....2....1..... get out the umbrella!

 

[74M35A2]

I always take bait. I did miss the beach. They can barely pull their own weight in the sand. Buy a D8.

3-4 years out? A lot will change by then. Price of these trucks is on a high right now since auctions dried up. To be seen if they come down or not, historically has. These trucks will also be that much older and run out/down by then, we all will.

Check back in 3-4 years, I may have my engine swap done by then that the above poster is incorrectly calling an 8.9ISX.

 

[simp5782]

The issue on all of the M939 series trucks with the NHC250 or the 8.3 is the transmission. The Allison is a gutless wonder that does not like to tow as it does not like the heat, especially with a heat exchanger these trucks have. The A2s have an air/air cooler after the exchanger but it isn't enough. It will kill it regardless of either engine with the summertime heat and a load on it. Either engine does well for towing but swap to a 9 or 13 speed if you want something simple and pretty straight forward. This gives you umpteen gears to choose from. The Allison has huge holes between 5-4 and 4-3 It is sad. It was not made to tow with these trucks other than maybe a 105 or 1061 trailer. Nothing overly heavy in the cargo class of trucks. 5th wheel plates are different for towing than the truck trying to drag a trailer on the pintle.

I have logged over 107,000 miles in my 923 since Sept 2015. The Allison's lasted around 30/35,000 miles and they died. The transmission swap I did is pretty exteme and not beneficial for most. However I will say that the NHC250 with 395/85/20 tires and the CAT 7155 will flatout roll even at 40,000gcvw. Just ask CSMDavis as he is the only member that has driven my 923. The 16.00s made her gutless in OD but I will fix that this weekend.

 

[snowtrac nome]

I have a little experience here ,I own an lmtv right now but cut my teeth on the old duce and 5 tons, if you get a truck like that for sand, you want at least the super singles, and a functioning ctis is better. I air down the lmtv all the time and tow trailers through some nasty sand with out spinning tires. the old cross country nd tires just suck every where but look cool the new super single tires are much better in soft terrain. If you get it stuck its going to cost, it took one time for me to learn that, but now I know my limitations. My vote get a truck with ctis axles and change the motor if necessary. I think a 3306 cat would look nice under the hood and a 3406 would look better but I don't know if there is enough room. A bc 350 or 400 would also fit nice and would likely give better torque than a hopped up 8.3.

 

[98G]

Do you like manual transmissions?



I like the truck tractors for their shorter wheelbase. It's trivial to swap out the 5th wheel for a shortened 9-12' cargo bed...

 

[Steelreaper80]

I have an M925A2. I regularly tow my tractor with it weekly out of state. Tractor, Bush Hog, grapples and a load of misc stuff in the bed I am around 40,000-45,000 lbs total. No issues at all. Tranny does not heat up outside of normal range nor does the engine. It is a bit of a dog under 1,500 RPM but above that, it pulls fairly well. I will probably bump the power this year a bit. I don't want to go crazy with it but I want to be closer to the 300 HP range. The Allison does have some shortfalls only being a 5 speed but you get used to it. Really the only major issue I have is the turning radius but again, you get used to it. At 40,000 to 45,000 lbs, I am getting 5-5.5 MPG but I am running them wide open on the interstate too. Time is money! I drive regionally around Indiana. There are some hills but nothing super major. I did add the RAM air and the smaller aftermarket air filter. Absolutely worth the money! I like the set up so much that I bought a second M925A2. I had to have redundancy. If one goes down for minor stuff I pull it off and tow with the other. I plan on buying a M932A2 later this year or next with a low boy trailer. I will be pulling the same tractor but will add the 15 ft Bush Hog. People ask me WTF all the time but the simple matter is I wanted one ever since I was in the Marine Corps and they are CHEAP! Are there other, possibly more practical trucks.....yes. But you get the WOW factor with a low price tag. I also take my trucks off road into the fields when I mow. So they are not strictly on road. I don't go mudding or anything silly. It is a work truck. It loves to work. I don't abuse them like some but I do work them and I enjoy driving them. You will be surprised when you constantly have people waving or saluting you or come out of the truck stop after getting coffee and people are taking pictures with your truck. It is pretty cool. If you want one.....go get one! I love mine!

 

[04yfzkid]

I appreciate all the responses! I have been slammed with midterms and with spring break everyone needs something from me lol. I've already decided on the bigger tires (I think it was 54s) but I'll make sure they are wide and what I need for what I am doing. CTIS is a must even though I know it has it's short comings. I am also open to a tractor and driving a manual as long as the clutch is not ridiculous. It's southern california and there is traffic everywhere. Last weekend I was at one of the local watering holes with my parents and duece rolled by. It prompted the discussion of using it as a tow vehicle. My dad, thought it would be a killer idea and opted to let me store and work on it at his house if I were to buy one. I have to give him credit because any wild idea I've had he lets me run with it despite him absolutely hating oil spots in the driveway and me always having oil leaker projects.

Anyways I don't have much to add to this thread because I still have an insane amount of research. Looking into to trans swaps, motor swaps, ctis failure points, tire choices, air conditioning, specific model common failures, ect. I'm still around though and read every response!

 

[Lukes_deuce]

If your looking to tow 20k and under, I say a stock M923 or M931 is fine. You have read a lot of the good and bad points. One thing I havent seen mentioned, what type of trailer it is. At 18k pounds it must be a big 5th wheel or a commercial tag trailer. Either truck will handle it, I would be cautious if its a 5th wheel camper. The hitch will take a beating on a m931. Other wise, hook up and go. I have towed my tag trailer (5k pounds) and pickup with two big tool boxes in the bed (9k) and barely noticed the trailer. My 923A2 pulled it great and had no problems. While the trucks can pull a lot of weight, look up Simps videos. He has plenty of great videos showing these trucks towing and how they drive. While many of guys have towed 30k to 40k with these trucks, I do not consider that fun in my opinion. Look around and see if you can talk to some guys who have towed similar trailers.

The picture below rolled across the scales at 37,300 lbs.

 

[gstirling]

Question for all you experienced people in this thread, i have a M936a1 and tow a M1061 trailer (logging). i have no experience with driving other MV variants (m923 etc.). are they that much faster than my 936 due to the extra tons i've got to haul? my 936 slows down at the sight of a hill with no trailer, with a load of logs (less then 5 tons) on, i can drop under 20 on a good grade (live in Tn.).
just curious as some posts talk about their MV running fast and hard... i'm just loud and slow...LOL.

 

[simp5782]

Question for all you experienced people in this thread, i have a M936a1 and tow a M1061 trailer (logging). i have no experience with driving other MV variants (m923 etc.). are they that much faster than my 936 due to the extra tons i've got to haul? my 936 slows down at the sight of a hill with no trailer, with a load of logs (less then 5 tons) on, i can drop under 20 on a good grade (live in Tn.).
just curious as some posts talk about their MV running fast and hard... i'm just loud and slow...LOL.

That is normal of a non turbo truck. Especially with the allison. it has holes. You can add a dual fuel line system and a ram air intake to the 936 and it will give you a little more umph. Having your pump turned up and metered right will give you a better advantage. Your wrecker will not climb any hills at speed. Sorry. it is just too heavy. Some of the 816s will roll pretty good but the transmission just has holes. My 923 needed the 16speed i have to really open it up. I can pull the mountains across 40 into NC grossing 40k running 65 all the way to Asheville. Loaded though even some hills will get me down. Especially long ones.

My truck loaded on 395 tires was a beast. I could gain speed up hills and hold in overdrive. On 1600s it isnt bad but I don't many complaints.
some videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e35aC9gy5_Y&t=241s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Psy5sH8J3JI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lgv_1ZdS8k&t=14s