The bottom line: nobody makes hubs for a 5 ton??

[Recovry4x4]

I like this Idea the best.

If you have them desplined would you have the make it bigger and have a bushing installed then reamed to true axle figures?

Nope, spindle bushing will support the non turning axle as long as you take the splines out and extra bit!

 

[RANDYDIRT]

Kenny,
I'M not so sure, the hub only has 1 bushing and that is on the inner end of the hub. there would be a lot of load on this bushing with the cap not supporting the outer end of the shaft. when I did my oil seal, I had to lift the axle and cap just a bit to get things to line up. the bushing is in close to the constant velocity joint with about 9" to 12" hanging out, that is a LOT of weight hanging out and going down the road at speed it will act as if it heavier due to centrifugal force

Why would the axle care if it's supported? It wouldn't be spinning would it? Looks to me like that if the axle cap didn't catch the stub that all would be cool.... Right?

Dirt

 

[73m819]

Dirt, good point, Im thinking of a spining axle, so I guess Ill deleat my post, thanks

 

[73m819]

Why would the axle care if it's supported? It wouldn't be spinning would it? Looks to me like that if the axle cap didn't catch the stub that all would be cool.... Right?

Dirt

As a after thought, the deplined hubs would only work if the axle is not spinning, if desplined and the MWO to dump the air to the trans valves is NOT installed, the outer axle will be live because the sprag will think the rears are spinning and engage, so the ONLY way for this to work without tearing up something is to despline AND install the MWO

 

[jaxsof]

There is another thread relate to this. adamsoffroadperformance has a man who is working on making these as a business venture. I am still abit concerned about disengaging the fron axle from the t-case. Not so much about the sprag, but about saving the power lost driving the diff.

 

[Baja Bandit]

As a after thought, the deplined hubs would only work if the axle is not spinning, if desplined and the MWO to dump the air to the trans valves is NOT installed, the outer axle will be live because the sprag will think the rears are spinning and engage, so the ONLY way for this to work without tearing up something is to despline AND install the MWO

I have never had a hub apart, so dont shoot the messenger, but was reading and had a thought so I thought I would throw it out there...
Is there enough metal in the hub to machine out enough to press in a sealed roller bearing with a center the correct size to support the outer axle be it in-gauged or not?

 

[Alredneck]

MWO for the t-case to switch the air on/off? Anyone have a NSN? **** if the .GOV came out with a kit might be easier using it than making one up with partts from different sources!

 

[73m819]

MWO for the t-case to switch the air on/off? Anyone have a NSN? **** if the .GOV came out with a kit might be easier using it than making one up with partts from different sources!

There wasn't a kit, this was more of a field thing,and not very high on the importance list, all it is is putting a deucs air xcase air switch in line with the air supply to the trans air valves

 

[jh1990]

pardon the stupid question but how exactly does the sprag front drive axle work? and why couldn't one just swap out the 5 ton case for a deuce case?

 

[Westech]

the out put shafts are on the other side. and the flanges are driifernt, mounting, ect, and a cummins engine has WAY too much power for a deuce case to handle.

 

[73m819]

pardon the stupid question but how exactly does the sprag front drive axle work? and why couldn't one just swap out the 5 ton case for a deuce case?

a sprag is nothing but a OVER RUNNING CLUTCH, picture 2 drums, one inside the other, one drum is connected to the rear drive line, the other connected to the front, going down the road, the inner goes a bit slower then the outer, but when the rears spin, truck slows down, now the inner drum is going FASTER then the front, thus causing the spring loaded or centrifugal force loaded jaws to ENGAGE, which now gives you front wheel drive, it will stay like this until the sprag senses no UNDER run condition and no load, it will NOT disengage under load

Hope this helps

 

[oldMan99]

a sprag is nothing but a OVER RUNNING CLUTCH, picture 2 drums, one inside the other, one drum is connected to the rear drive line, the other connected to the front, going down the road, the inner goes a bit slower then the outer, but when the rears spin, truck slows down, now the inner drum is going FASTER then the front, thus causing the spring loaded or centrifugal force loaded jaws to ENGAGE, which now gives you front wheel drive, it will stay like this until the sprag senses no UNDER run condition and no load, it will NOT disengage under load

Hope this helps

PLEASE.. Correct me if I am wrong...

The 5 ton is designed to be full time 6x6 in as much as it is not designed to allow the transfer case to be "Turned off" going to the front axle like I can do in my F-350. (Correct?)

The 2 ton is not like the 5 ton in that you can shift to only rear wheel drive. (Correct?)

Although completely different the description in the quoted post above reminds me of (sort of) the way a Detroit Locker works.

Assuming my understanding of the 5 ton transfer case operation above is correct, if you unlock your front hubs (or have the milled out caps) the t-case will still turn the axle internals voiding much of any available fuel savings and doing noting to prolong the life of the front end components other than possible making it slightly easier on the tires in turns. (Correct?)

The 5 ton t-case uses compressed air to make the sprag engage the front end and it only engages the front end if the rear axle(s) over-speed the front axle (Making the t-case believe that the rear has lost traction) So this is not really "Full time 6x6" but more like rear wheel drive with "Automatic" front axle engagement as needed (Correct?)

OK, assuming I have everyting correct so far... (If I don't then the following is going to be useless...)

Would it not be preferable to have a t-case that you can manually turn off the front axle for "Normal" driving and manually engage the front axle with 100% lock-up/engagement or however you want to say it?

The rational being that in"Normal" driving the rear axles should be plenty and you would be interested in saving any fuel or maintenance possible (I would think this would be important to both civilian and military use) and when you want/need 6x6 traction you want/need REAL "Full time" 6x6 action.

Assuming all is on track so far, the question comes to mind, (In addition to lock out hubs instead of needing the modified end caps) what can be done about the t-case?

I once had a Jeep with "Quadratrack" (Jeeps "Full time" 4x4 system that used a bunch of clutches, burnt out easily and was generally a POS.) There was a kit available to basically gut the inside of the case and replace all the junk inside with a set of real gears and drive chains. This allowed disengagement of the front end for "Normal" use and "Real" 4x4 when you need it, (At least power to the axles, the stock open differentials remain unless (Like I did) you install lockers).

Would it not be possible for somebody to design such a kit for the 5 ton? Or would it make more sense to just change the t-case for one that has what we are looking for, and what case would that be? This would give you 100% dead front axle for "Normal" driving and 100% driving front axle for... Other times when you really need ALL wheels pulling (Assuming of course you have lockers installed x3)

If this is not possible; Could you not just install a simple ball valve in the input line for the air to the t-case to disable the sprag (You may also need a "Dump valve" to dump the pressure already in the case?) and of course either install your modified caps or unlock your hubs.. You would at least have the dead axle when you wanted but still not have a real 100% driving axle when you needed it... If I understand everything correctly anyway....


I really hope that all makes sense I don't sound like a old crazy Special Olympian....

.

 

[73m819]

,

PLEASE.. Correct me if I am wrong...

1---The 5 ton is designed to be full time 6x6 in as much as it is not designed to allow the transfer case to be "Turned off" going to the front axle like I can do in my F-350. (Correct?)

2---The 2 ton is not like the 5 ton in that you can shift to only rear wheel drive. (Correct?)

Although completely different the description in the quoted post above reminds me of (sort of) the way a Detroit Locker works.

3---Assuming my understanding of the 5 ton transfer case operation above is correct, if you unlock your front hubs (or have the milled out caps) the t-case will still turn the axle internals voiding much of any available fuel savings and doing noting to prolong the life of the front end components other than possible making it slightly easier on the tires in turns. (Correct?)

The 5 ton t-case uses compressed air to make the sprag engage the front end and it only engages the front end if the rear axle(s) over-speed the front axle (Making the t-case believe that the rear has lost traction) So this is not really "Full time 6x6" but more like rear wheel drive with "Automatic" front axle engagement as needed (Correct?)

OK, assuming I have everyting correct so far... (If I don't then the following is going to be useless...)

4---Would it not be preferable to have a t-case that you can manually turn off the front axle for "Normal" driving and manually engage the front axle with 100% lock-up/engagement or however you want to say it?

The rational being that in"Normal" driving the rear axles should be plenty and you would be interested in saving any fuel or maintenance possible (I would think this would be important to both civilian and military use) and when you want/need 6x6 traction you want/need REAL "Full time" 6x6 action.

Assuming all is on track so far, the question comes to mind, (In addition to lock out hubs instead of needing the modified end caps) what can be done about the t-case?

I once had a Jeep with "Quadratrack" (Jeeps "Full time" 4x4 system that used a bunch of clutches, burnt out easily and was generally a POS.) There was a kit available to basically gut the inside of the case and replace all the junk inside with a set of real gears and drive chains. This allowed disengagement of the front end for "Normal" use and "Real" 4x4 when you need it, (At least power to the axles, the stock open differentials remain unless (Like I did) you install lockers).

4---Would it not be possible for somebody to design such a kit for the 5 ton? Or would it make more sense to just change the t-case for one that has what we are looking for, and what case would that be? This would give you 100% dead front axle for "Normal" driving and 100% driving front axle for... Other times when you really need ALL wheels pulling (Assuming of course you have lockers installed x3)

4---If this is not possible; Could you not just install a simple ball valve in the input line for the air to the t-case to disable the sprag (You may also need a "Dump valve" to dump the pressure already in the case?) and of course either install your modified caps or unlock your hubs.. You would at least have the dead axle when you wanted but still not have a real 100% driving axle when you needed it... If I understand everything correctly anyway....


I really hope that all makes sense I don't sound like a old crazy Special Olympian....

.

1--- No, on demand front wheel drive
2---the early deuces were sprag
3---Yes unless #4
4---There is a MWO for this, cutting and dumping the air to the trans valves, this has been talked about eailer in this thread, in fact in a few theads not to long ago, I went though search(I hate search), gave up, just to much clutter to go though, I just know that one of you super search experts will dorp in and come to the rescure

From another thread
"It is just putting a air switch (valve)in the air SUPPLY line to the valves at the trans, this cuts and dumps the air to the valves, thus putting the xcase sprag in neutral, the deucs air shift xcase air switch works great

The air switch (valve) has to cut the air to the valves and also DUMP the air pressure that's in the line, other wise one side of the sprag will still engage for a bit till pressure is drawn off "

if you went call me 703-389-6705