The good and the bad of owning something tracked and/or armored?

[wgtactical]

I've pushed my vehicles about as far as they can go and they've held up pretty good. Consumables such as seals and gaskets are easily adapted or fabricated. I haven't replaced any of my road wheels or tracks since I initially installed them, but I do have spares if that becomes an issue. As folks has said before these things are machines and like any machine, their parts need maintenance. So far my only expense to maintain has been a shifter cable, a mass air flow sensor, batteries and a lot of fuel But then again I really baby my stuff

http://youtu.be/GS6XhCOFr3g

 

[Jeepsinker]

Who needs a drift car when you can drift with armor? That's awesome!

 

[WillWagner]

Having the priveledge to be associated with the Museum, I have been fortunate enough to have worked on and played with tracked vehicles and an M8. They are truly fun to drive and, for me, to work on, but, if they were something to own personally, not so much. The tracked vehicles be it a 548, 578, 114, 113, 104, 901, 558, sherman, m60, stewart, m5, half track whatever, are highly maintenence intensive. Track adjusters, wiring issues, oil leaks, stuck track pins, road wheels, track pads, stuck/broken hatch parts, wing bearings, cooling packages. All of it is nothing like working on a deuce or 5 ton. The cooling package on a 113 and their varients is mounted horizontally to the top armor. All that needs to come off to get it out. It requires a crane or big fork lift and more than 2 people. Tracks on a half track, as stated earlier, are dried up when it comes to finding replacement parts. To do brakes on a half track, the tracks need to come off. Again a more than 2 people job. Road wheels are getting scarce too. To do a starter on most tanks, light or heavy, the power pack needs to be removed. Sure, an M60 power pack is made to be removed fairly easily, but, again a more than 2 people job PLUS a wrecker/crane with a lifting cradle to get it out. An M8/20 is cool. The brake system on these gems are WWI era. Twin wheel cylinders, thin shoes that are made of unobtainium. Not too bad to work on, but getting real hard to find parts for. Doing a M/C on one isn't fun, it's located under the front armor in a little hole, kind of a biatch to get at and work on. The M20 is a bit easier though.

Drew, if it were me, i'd find a Museum that has things that need attention and donate the time you'd spend on repairing/maintaining an owned piece of equipment to them, fixing their equipment. Donate the dollars you'd spend on an owned piece of aromr to the museum, these type of places are going away, fast, due to insurance and the costs of just keeping the doors open and complying with every little public access rule handed down by the local municipalities. It makes the museum better by having running, driving vehicles, you are paying it forward by volunteering, you will meet some truly awsome people in the process and make friends that are true friends, the kind that are there for a lifetime, and, it's fun....if you like to get dirty, stinky and like spider webs!

 

[SD T16]

Anything tracked if always cool. But go for something that is a "sociable" vehicle. Meaning, You can put a lot of your friends in it for rides, parades etc. Most tanks only have maybe 4 hatches. My buddy just got a FV432, easy to drive, fun, fits lots of people!

SD

 

[Augdog1964]

Ok, I'll throw my hat into the ring...

Disclaimer first, I know nothing about M113s or M114s... they may have tracks, but I don't personally consider them armor... flame away...

Owning tracked vehicles is not for the faint of heart, but it is incredibly rewarding and there is simply nothing you can own in this hobby that draws more attention or allows you to spread your passion. Over Christmas break we've given 4 tours of the collection to people of all ages, and they are invariably transfixed by these old warriors... whether they like MVs or not. Score for pride of ownership and spreading the passion. These vehicles (especially tanks) are the pinnacle of MV ownership, and I believe in the coming years will appreciate like that of warbirds.

They do require maintenance, as does anything. However you also generally USE them less than a wheeled truck. I doubt if the amount of maintenance is anymore when controlled for this. Frankly real armor is made to withstand HE concussion, shrapnel, and direct hits... driving them around on the ground doesn't do too much. Do you need spare parts? Sure. Can almost anything be fixed, made, fabricated, or replaced with something else? Absolutely.

Next, don't tell too many people, but WORKING ON THEM IS KINDA THE POINT. Ask anyone who is into them and you'll learn that learning about these pieces and understanding how they work is one of the top attractions of owning armor. If you just want a toy to have fun in, buy a Porsche. Its a lot cheaper and you don't have to get your hands dirty.

Are they expensive? Can be. Priced a Sherman lately? LOL. However there are still good deals... Soviet armor due to their shear production, is still a good deal. However that ship too is sailing. If you want in, now is the best time on everything short of U.S. armor... which is already priced high. Best yet Soviet and Brit armor still has spares around. I just brought in a container of T55 spares from Poland... and they want me to take more!

Heavy... you bet. Expensive to move... yep. No getting around it. Dangerous... absolutely. They don't care who they hurt. You have to be in a committed relationship - to understand the vehicle and keep it and those on it safe.

The rewards far outweigh the costs. If you have a place to run it, want to learn, like sharing our MV passion, and have the cash.. absolutely buy armor.

My .02 anyway...

 

[murphy]

I've got a m114 a m76 otter a halftrack and am working on restoring a m47 Patton currently If you have the time, the ability mechanically, the patients (parts can be tough to find) and the finances. Go for it!!! there is nothing like tracks. when we take our stuff out for a spin people stop us to take pictures, Veterans stop you to tell about when they were on a crew in the army or marines they will crawl all over it. Some of them can hardly walk to it but they want back in one. Kids love them and they spark their interest and they start asking about what war they were used in and where the one you have out was used its great. They can be a lot of work, major headaches to move, hard to find parts for and expensive, but if you can do it they are the coolest things you can own they are worth the problems. augdog 1964 is correct

Ok, I'll throw my hat into the ring...

Disclaimer first, I know nothing about M113s or M114s... they may have tracks, but I don't personally consider them armor... flame away...

Owning tracked vehicles is not for the faint of heart, but it is incredibly rewarding and there is simply nothing you can own in this hobby that draws more attention or allows you to spread your passion. Over Christmas break we've given 4 tours of the collection to people of all ages, and they are invariably transfixed by these old warriors... whether they like MVs or not. Score for pride of ownership and spreading the passion. These vehicles (especially tanks) are the pinnacle of MV ownership, and I believe in the coming years will appreciate like that of warbirds.

They do require maintenance, as does anything. However you also generally USE them less than a wheeled truck. I doubt if the amount of maintenance is anymore when controlled for this. Frankly real armor is made to withstand HE concussion, shrapnel, and direct hits... driving them around on the ground doesn't do too much. Do you need spare parts? Sure. Can almost anything be fixed, made, fabricated, or replaced with something else? Absolutely.

Next, don't tell too many people, but WORKING ON THEM IS KINDA THE POINT. Ask anyone who is into them and you'll learn that learning about these pieces and understanding how they work is one of the top attractions of owning armor. If you just want a toy to have fun in, buy a Porsche. Its a lot cheaper and you don't have to get your hands dirty.

Are they expensive? Can be. Priced a Sherman lately? LOL. However there are still good deals... Soviet armor due to their shear production, is still a good deal. However that ship too is sailing. If you want in, now is the best time on everything short of U.S. armor... which is already priced high. Best yet Soviet and Brit armor still has spares around. I just brought in a container of T55 spares from Poland... and they want me to take more!

Heavy... you bet. Expensive to move... yep. No getting around it. Dangerous... absolutely. They don't care who they hurt. You have to be in a committed relationship - to understand the vehicle and keep it and those on it safe.

The rewards far outweigh the costs. If you have a place to run it, want to learn, like sharing our MV passion, and have the cash.. absolutely buy armor.

My .02 anyway...

 

[hndrsonj]

Drew, What about CSI's west coast location where they had SEVERAL M114's a couple years ago.......?

 

[patracy]

Having the priveledge to be associated with the Museum, I have been fortunate enough to have worked on and played with tracked vehicles and an M8. They are truly fun to drive and, for me, to work on, but, if they were something to own personally, not so much. The tracked vehicles be it a 548, 578, 114, 113, 104, 901, 558, sherman, m60, stewart, m5, half track whatever, are highly maintenence intensive. Track adjusters, wiring issues, oil leaks, stuck track pins, road wheels, track pads, stuck/broken hatch parts, wing bearings, cooling packages. All of it is nothing like working on a deuce or 5 ton. The cooling package on a 113 and their varients is mounted horizontally to the top armor. All that needs to come off to get it out. It requires a crane or big fork lift and more than 2 people. Tracks on a half track, as stated earlier, are dried up when it comes to finding replacement parts. To do brakes on a half track, the tracks need to come off. Again a more than 2 people job. Road wheels are getting scarce too. To do a starter on most tanks, light or heavy, the power pack needs to be removed. Sure, an M60 power pack is made to be removed fairly easily, but, again a more than 2 people job PLUS a wrecker/crane with a lifting cradle to get it out. An M8/20 is cool. The brake system on these gems are WWI era. Twin wheel cylinders, thin shoes that are made of unobtainium. Not too bad to work on, but getting real hard to find parts for. Doing a M/C on one isn't fun, it's located under the front armor in a little hole, kind of a biatch to get at and work on. The M20 is a bit easier though.

Drew, if it were me, i'd find a Museum that has things that need attention and donate the time you'd spend on repairing/maintaining an owned piece of equipment to them, fixing their equipment. Donate the dollars you'd spend on an owned piece of aromr to the museum, these type of places are going away, fast, due to insurance and the costs of just keeping the doors open and complying with every little public access rule handed down by the local municipalities. It makes the museum better by having running, driving vehicles, you are paying it forward by volunteering, you will meet some truly awsome people in the process and make friends that are true friends, the kind that are there for a lifetime, and, it's fun....if you like to get dirty, stinky and like spider webs!

There's a VFW park literally 1/2 a mile from my house. I kinda was hoping to find something that I could "display" there. I kinda get to enjoy owning it, but others would get to enjoy it as well instead of being under just my lock and key so to speak. That's kinda been my idea from the start behind all of this. My Uncle (He passed a couple years ago) was very active in this VFW. Before the park became a VFW, my parents and grandparents both lived on the other side of the lake. So, I'm kinda connected in a way to it on a few levels.

 

[patracy]

Drew, What about CSI's west coast location where they had SEVERAL M114's a couple years ago.......?

I wasn't aware of CSI having a west coast location? Just thought they had the one location near me. (And another one out in Dallas, GA or somewhere near there previously) I know I've been all through their Tallapoosa, GA yard. There's zero armor or tracked MVs there.

 

[hndrsonj]

I wasn't aware of CSI having a west coast location? Just thought they had the one location near me. (And another one out in Dallas, GA or somewhere near there previously) I know I've been all through their Tallapoosa, GA yard. There's zero armor or tracked MVs there.

No, they had a west coast location. (don't know if they still do though) The Dallas one was small.

 

[woodwalker]

My m2 halftrack is close to being done( ha never) I have mine on loan to the museum so more people enjoy it

 

[patracy]

My m2 halftrack is close to being done( ha never) I have mine on loan to the museum so more people enjoy it

That's honestly more of my end goal to this. I've found a nice project M114. But I'm having a hard time even getting quotes to haul it from CA back. It appears to mainly just need a good clean up and head gaskets.

 

[murphy]

If you get the m114 don't mess with the head gaskets put a gm crate 350 in it with electronic ignition and a holley truck avenger carb (they work well on steep slopes and rough ground) or fuel injection It would be way more fun to drive and more reliable the 283 is kind of a pooch and the carbs can be a pain in the ---. then save all the original stuff for when originality in a restoration is more important than fun if that ever comes Murphy

That's honestly more of my end goal to this. I've found a nice project M114. But I'm having a hard time even getting quotes to haul it from CA back. It appears to mainly just need a good clean up and head gaskets.

 

[patracy]

If you get the m114 don't mess with the head gaskets put a gm crate 350 in it with electronic ignition and a holley truck avenger carb (they work well on steep slopes and rough ground) or fuel injection It would be way more fun to drive and more reliable the 283 is kind of a pooch and the carbs can be a pain in the ---. then save all the original stuff for when originality in a restoration is more important than fun if that ever comes Murphy

Honestly if I can get it work out. I might just end up dropping a LT1 I have laying around into it. I've also got a Holley TB FI setup I need to use. Or I might just go a different route completely and find a 4BT.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Or go with a 6.5 turbo diesel so you get a decently powerful Diesel engine like the 4bt, but without the adapter plates and whatnot. Of course, I'm sure you've already considered that.

 

[patracy]

Or go with a 6.5 turbo diesel so you get a decently powerful Diesel engine like the 4bt, but without the adapter plates and whatnot. Of course, I'm sure you've already considered that.

Yup, the 4BT I'd plan on would be from a Frito Lay truck. Already has a TH400 behind it/adapter plate. The 4BT would just have better power than the 6.5 IMO.

 

[Aerialfred]

The good and bad of owning ....

Does that mean you would then be called the armored "Frito Bandito"?

 

[panzerwillie]

Make sure if you put a 4BT use the hydraulic mounts so it does not shake your teeth off/////

 

[Carlo]

I've pushed my vehicles about as far as they can go and they've held up pretty good. Consumables such as seals and gaskets are easily adapted or fabricated. I haven't replaced any of my road wheels or tracks since I initially installed them, but I do have spares if that becomes an issue. As folks has said before these things are machines and like any machine, their parts need maintenance. So far my only expense to maintain has been a shifter cable, a mass air flow sensor, batteries and a lot of fuel But then again I really baby my stuff

http://youtu.be/GS6XhCOFr3g

I saw your video and am familiar with your apc but I had no idea they could do this! With my 432 I could never get the speed or be able to lock the track.
Thats a super recon apc!

 

[jcappeljr]

Bad ass video...