The "Road Oiler" gets overdrive (700R4 Swap)

[FMJ]

How much did you have to give for the TV bracket, or did you have it already? I've been looking around online and can't seem to find one.

 

[Speddmon]

My TV bracket was a gift from a good friend. Several people have had really good luck finding them in junk yards (the ones you get to scrounge around in and pull the parts yourself) They can be found on old pick-ups, blazers, suburbans and even vans as long as it had the 6.2 with a 700R4 from the factory. They are really easy to get on and off if you can find some. Also, there is a member on here trying to get a deal worked out to have a company produce new ones. I'll find the link for you in a bit.

 

[Warthog]

Okay, so this is a downgrade in strength, which you are considering an acceptable trade-off to get the 4th gear. Got it.

Makes sense to me.


So the 700R4 is a non-electric 4 speed descendant of the TH350, and is the direct ancestor of the 4L60/4L60E.

Is there a non-electric, 4 speed descendant of the TH400, which is the direct ancestor of the 4L80E?

Or has such a beast never existed?

The TH350 was introduced in 1969 and phased out around 1984ish.

The 700r4 is a replacement for the TH350. It is a new design without a bunch of electronics. It was introduced in 1982. It was renamed the 4L60 a couple of years before production ended in 1991. Some units where installed thru 1993. As with everything it did have upgrades thruout production to address some of its short comings.

The electronic controlled 4L60E replaced the 4L60 in 1993. It is still used in some applications. In 1994 all "light duty" transmissions where the 4L60Es.

The TH400 was introduced in 1964. It began being phased out in the early '80s. The last passenger car to use it was the 1984 Presidential Limo. It was renamed the 3L80 in 1987 and continued production until 1991.

The electonic controlled 4L80E was introduced in 1991 and is stilled used today although the Allision six speed is taking it's place.

There never was a non-electronic heavy duty 4 speed.

While I never fully trust Wikipedia they sometimes have good information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbo-Hydramatic#THM350

 

[Warthog]

How much did you have to give for the TV bracket, or did you have it already? I've been looking around online and can't seem to find one.

The brackets show up on fleabay for around $75, I bought one a couple of years ago. I did find one at the Pull-A-Part in my three years of looking. They gave it to me for free.

 

[Speddmon]

This truck is so much fun to drive around now that I have it back on the road, and the overdrive is just awesome!

I was doing some plumbing in the basement today, and needed to go into town to the hardware store. On the way out the door, I paused to grab my keys and thought....screw it, I grabbed the CUCV keys and took off .

 

[patracy]

Do you have the flexplate part number you used?

 

[Speddmon]

I did buy that from Rockauto.com and they even had the right plate listed. The Rockauto item was and ATP Part # Z135 and beside that was I believe the GM part # of 14077158

 

[ryan77]

How much less noise in the cab is there at 45 mph????

 

[Speddmon]

At 45? A lot less noise. Heck, it's even way quieter at 70 than it was at 55 before. Especially with the drive shaft not wobbling all over the place

 

[swbradley1]

Tom, Do we have a common parts list like the one for the M35s and 800 series trucks where you could put all your part numbers?

 

[1ton cucv k5 turbo]

There is a full manual valve body some people have done with the 4L80. No more electronics, but you have to shift up and down the gear range yourself.

FYI... the cost for a good TCI manual valve body for the 4L80 and the cost of a controller, is roughly the same... Cost.. comes down to the "extras", vs " loss of auto shifting..." I recommend doing the research in decipering which would work best for you, and your application...



Nice work Tom.... gald to see you completed this..... how about some more pics....

 

[Speddmon]

Tom, Do we have a common parts list like the one for the M35s and 800 series trucks where you could put all your part numbers?

Steve, i'm not sure if there is a thread for common parts or not. But, the CUCV's all use the same stock engine and transmissions, and to the best of my knowledge there are only 2 options for the transfer case the NP205 & NP208. The only real differences in them comes in the axles and gear ratios. As for the parts I bought, all of the CUCV's are based off of the '84 civi designed K30 pick-ups or the K5 blazer. The civi blazer just happened to come with a 700R4 as an option for the transmission. So any parts I had to buy, were for the '84 K5 blazer with a 6.2 diesel with a 700R4 automatic transmission.

 

[ryan77]

Good job! Next m1028 i get im going to do the swap!!

 

[Speddmon]

Well, I had a chance to drive the truck a little bit. I drove it to work 2 days this past week. A total of 311.7 miles, I was a little surprised to only get about 13 MPG out of it for the 2 trips. But, I did like the fact that I could make it to work in my normal amount of time...going 70 on the highway helps a lot with that. I had the GPS with me to track the speed and such. My average moving speed was about 67.5 MPH or so. The max speed I got to was about 75 or so. It would do more, but I'm not one for speeding a whole lot. I had just come up on some little goof driving a newer WV Beetle beside a semi doing about 60...when the jerk finally got around the truck and moved over he sped up to about 70, and really pi$$ed me off...so I had to pass him!!

One thing I did notice is, that the truck really likes to run in that 2250 to 2350 RPM range, right where a diesel makes it best power. I would be cruising along at about 2500 RPM's (70 MPH) and when I would come up on a hill, of course the 6.2 would start to die off. Since I'm still running near stock tires, I didn't want to get on the throttle enough to make it downshift (63 or 64 MPH in 4th, downshifting to 3rd would be something like a 2300 RPM 4th downshift to about 3400 RPM 3rd...not a good idea). So I just let it bog down until it found it's happy place, and at about 2250 to 2350 RPM's it would just chug up the hills until I got to the top and then it would go right back to 2500. Once I get the HMMWV wheels/tires on it, then the cruising speed should fall about right into that power range of 2200-2350 RPM's. And downshifts won't be as big of a deal since the 37's will allow about 65 MPH or so in 3rd gear, a downshift from 65 or so into 3rd gear won't over speed the engine.

 

[cliffyp]

I've been averaging just over 17 mpg for several tanks now. I keep my rpm's right at 2000, between 55-60mph. I've had it up to 70 mph but my truck seems to enjoy 55-60 a lot more.

I'm sure it wasn't related, but the last time I was doing 70 my governor broke. Since then I'm a little shy.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?98857-700r4-governor-issue

 

[Speddmon]

Good point. I'm SURE I could get better mileage if I slowed down to the 55-60 range. But that's the reason I did the swap in the first place, so I wouldn't have to just drive 55-60. Most of my driving is on the highway, and It takes me an hour 20 minutes to get to work doing 70....I don't want to be stuck going 55 if I decide to take the CUCV.

 

[southdave]

sp-ed
how did you do the torque converter lock up?? on my 09 I had trans shop wire it up.. I didn't get any paper back for it. I am fixing to drop 4 bt in it now. One more thing torqconverter was it six lug or 3 what I can fine b29 had two converter for diesel app.

 

[cliffyp]

I'll answer for what I did for lockup. I used a TCI kit that has a 4th gear pressure switch to get automatic lockup in 4th gear.

I put a double throw switch on the dash. Up is auto lockup in 4th gear. Middle is off, no lockup. Down is manual lock in 2nd 3rd or 4th.

Auto lock is very nice for typical daily driving.

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/tci-376600

 

[Speddmon]

Dave,

For the lock-up I used the brake light wiring kit from Bowtie Overdrives. With the kit they give you a new lock-up solenoid and 4th gear pressure switch, along with a new brake light switch (one from a truck with cruise control). The installation was pretty simple. You replace your existing brake light switch with the cruise switch. Reconnect the brake lights to the new switch and the other switch contacts are for the lock-up. They are normally closed contacts so when you step on the brake pedal, they open up and the converter unlocks. It is an automatic lock-up in 4th gear. I also bought the 3rd gear manual switch kit to lock it up manually in 3rd gear if you are going to do any heavy towing or extended driving in 3rd gear, you wire the switch AFTER the brake light switch, so if you step on the brakes in 3rd gear it unlocks. But will lock as soon as you let off of the brake if the switch is still on.

My torque converter had 3 bolts to attach it to the flexplate. The plate had 6 holes in it though, so if there was a 6 hole converter it would probably bolt up.

 

[cliffyp]

When I was looking for a torque converter for my build, the vast majority were 3 bolt converters. I think I only came across 1 6 bolt converter and it was substantially more expensive. My flex plate also has the 6 six holes.