time for a new starter. need some advice please.

[Gurney]

Ok I got my m1009 a few years back. It was already converted to 12v. Fast forward to about 6 months ago.

Some A hole tried to steal it and busted the steering column and killed the batteries and the starter started whining really bad. Thankfully the thieves didn't know to use the glow plug warmer.

So I'm glad it wasn't stolen. I replaced the batteries and a new steering column. Starter wasnt sounding great but still kinda worked. Didn't start as fast as it used to but yeah. I procrastinated to replace the starter. And now it died in a parking lot. You can hear it spinning. But doesn't seem like it is making connection with the flex plate. And come to find out one of the starter bolts fell out. Looks like it sheared just below the threads. Ohhh goodie.

So anyways. The question is which starter do I get. Is it a 12v starter or a 24v one ? I assume it's 12v since it's missing the alternator and they said it was converted. But better to ask to make sure I think.

Thankfully it seems that starters around 110-130 that's not too bad. But I need to know which one to get. Thanks in advance. Here are some pics. Sorry for the story lol.

 

[NDT]

Yes 12 volt.

 

[Mullaney]

Ok I got my m1009 a few years back. It was already converted to 12v. Fast forward to about 6 months ago.

Some A hole tried to steal it and busted the steering column and killed the batteries and the starter started whining really bad. Thankfully the thieves didn't know to use the glow plug warmer.

So I'm glad it wasn't stolen. I replaced the batteries and a new steering column. Starter wasnt sounding great but still kinda worked. Didn't start as fast as it used to but yeah. I procrastinated to replace the starter. And now it died in a parking lot. You can hear it spinning. But doesn't seem like it is making connection with the flex plate. And come to find out one of the starter bolts fell out. Looks like it sheared just below the threads. Ohhh goodie.

So anyways. The question is which starter do I get. Is it a 12v starter or a 24v one ?

Thankfully it seems that starters around 110-130 that's not too bad. But I need to know which one to get. Thanks in advance. Here are some pics. Sorry for the story lol. View attachment 883202

.
So... What If?

You have already got a 12v truck? Generally a 12v starter costs less than a 24v (just worth mentioning). You could take the starter that you already have to a rebuild shop - have that repaired - then reinstall it.

You should have a support on the back of the starter.
You might have shims between the starter and the block - Those are IMPORTANT.

Yeah, thieves are willing to do whatever and even if you catch them, you won't ever recover what it cost you. Cars need to be more like horses were a hundred years ago. Stealing your transportation got you hung from the nearest tree.

 

[Gurney]

So I'm going to order one on amazon. And then after I install that one I will take this one somewhere to be rebuilt. Or are the stock ones loads better quality ? This one used to turn over the Blazer so fast and quiet.

 

[Gurney]

.
So... What If?

You have already got a 12v truck? Generally a 12v starter costs less than a 24v (just worth mentioning). You could take the starter that you already have to a rebuild shop - have that repaired - then reinstall it.

You should have a support on the back of the starter.
You might have shims between the starter and the block - Those are IMPORTANT.

Yeah, thieves are willing to do whatever and even if you catch them, you won't ever recover what it cost you. Cars need to be more like horses were a hundred years ago. Stealing your transportation got you hung from the nearest tree.

Finally got around to taking it off. Didn't see any shims. And didn't have assupport bracket. But it did move barely off center from the sheared bolt. Basically it was at maybe 5 degrees. It hit the oil pan and that stopped it. . . Thankfully the oil pan isn't leaking from that point and the one bolt that was still there wasnt bent broken and the block isn't cracked !! Hooray. I'm also wondering, since the starter was 100% not making connection with the flex plate. If it's still good. The bad sounding starter noises probably came from the gear being misaligned with the flex plate. Is there a way to watch the starter engage and spin without it being bolted to the engine ? Should I be afraid to hold it while say my wife does the ignition steps ? To check for engagement and spinning ? I am curious if it produces so much torque I couldn't hold it.

Thankfully with the 33 tires the starter was easy to get between the springs and driveshaft. The teeth on both the starter and flex plate look good. A slight shine on the plate teeth in a few areas but nothing that looks worrisome.

Also.since this isn't the 24 volt starter. Does that mean the 12v one that is crazy easy to find on Amazon that is just an L shape is the right one to get ? I do t need the hillbilly wizard 30$ one for the 24v starter ?

Thanks all and have a great weekend.

 

[87cr250r]

The Delco 28MT is the premium starter for this engine. It's available in both 12 and 24v models.

 

[Gurney]

Ok. But how to test the current one that I'm fairly certain still works. Just bolt it up with new bolts after I pull out the broken one and give it a try ? Also since it's 12v is that the more common bracket ?

 

[87cr250r]

If it broke the bolts then it was certainly working. The brackets should be the same regardless of voltage.

You can spin the starter off engine. I usually grab the motor lug and starter housing with jumper cables and put my foot on the starter. Make the connection at the battery side, the arcing can damage the threads. This only spins the motor but doesn't engage the solenoid. You can test that separately. In the same manner. Doing each step individually saves some hassle rigging up wiring.

Don't hold the starter or solenoid with your bare hands as there is a bit of an inductive kickback when you break the connection which can cause a little shock.

 

[nyoffroad]

If it broke the bolts then it was certainly working. The brackets should be the same regardless of voltage.

You can spin the starter off engine. I usually grab the motor lug and starter housing with jumper cables and put my foot on the starter. Make the connection at the battery side, the arcing can damage the threads. This only spins the motor but doesn't engage the solenoid. You can test that separately. In the same manner. Doing each step individually saves some hassle rigging up wiring.

Don't hold the starter or solenoid with your bare hands as there is a bit of an inductive kickback when you break the connection which can cause a little shock.

Or just take it to Auto Zone and let them test it.

 

[Gurney]

Oh dang. I didn't realize they tested starters as well. That's awesome.

When it comes to brackets though. I thought there was a difference between military and civilian 6.2 ones. I've seen reviews on Amazon that say they fit. But I've researched on here and people always say to make sure you get the right starter. And reference one that sounds like it is different than the normal one.?

 

[87cr250r]

It's direct drive vs gear reduction starters. The 28MT is the gear reduction starter. You'll need the bracket for that one.

 

[Gurney]

Is there a way by looking at it to see if mine is DD vs gear reduction ? I can post a pic of it if that helps. It's pretty large.

 

[87cr250r]

Direct drive the motor of the starter is inline with the pinion gear. With the gear reduction starter the motor is offset. Your first picture on this post looks like a 28MT which is a gear reduction starter.

 

[kennyw]

No one seems to have mentioned it yet, but the reason your starter bolt broke is because you were missing the starter brace.

Starter brace for the 28MT is GM part number 23502557, available on Amazon.

Starter bolt is GM part number 15544950, also available on Amazon.

 

[87cr250r]

Amazon has the stainless ARP starter bolts on sale for $16. I just bought a pair.

Otherwise, Leroy has the whole set:

https://leroydiesel.com/products/arp-starter-bolts-with-washers-12-point/

 

[Gurney]

No one seems to have mentioned it yet, but the reason your starter bolt broke is because you were missing the starter brace.

Starter brace for the 28MT is GM part number 23502557, available on Amazon.

Starter bolt is GM part number 15544950, also available on Amazon.

Thank you so much !!! I already ordered the bolts. I didn't order the brace since I wasn't sure which one to order ! That's exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much !!!

 

[cucvrus]

The grade 5 bolt has a Minimum Tensile Strength of 120,000psi. The stainless bolt is about a grade 3.5-4. The grade 5 steel also has a higher Minimum Yield Strength.
In the truck body assembling business stainless steel fasteners are weaker and the threads gall and strip easier. I would not recommend stainless steel starter bolts on a CUCV or any engine. What would be the upgrade. I mean after 37 years of standard stock M10 starter bolts. Asking because I want to know. I had a friend grind out the rivets on his CUCV frame and bolt everything back together with SS bolts. I scratched my head and said the frame is still not stainless and we see the corrosion that 2 different metals cause all the time. Mostly steel against aluminum and vs versa. Happy Holidays. I know that stainless does not like torque. It is brittle.

 

[87cr250r]

ARP uses a proprietary alloy from Tech Steel called Custom 450 for their stainless fasteners. As supplied by ARP the tensile strength is 170-190ksi. Galling resistance is good. Stress corrosion cracking resistance is good. Toughness is good.

Otherwise, you are correct that the typical 304 and 316 stainless fasteners are around 70ksi tensile strength (grade 2) and are very prone to galling. They'll sometimes break when exposed to salt as well. Metric fasteners have an A4-80 (A2-70 is equivalent to the 304 mentioned above and is what you'll find in the hardware store) rating that provides similar strength to grade 5 but standard sized fasteners in similar strength are otherwise very expensive.

 

[patracy]

I'm not sure if the starter bracket is available. I know there's two starters and two styles of braces/brackets. I know one the the brackets can still be had. The other however can't. But they're rather simple in nature. You can easily make one from a small piece of angle iron and a drill if you don't find one. Absolutely make sure you install one though.

 

[gringeltaube]

But they're rather simple in nature. You can easily make one from a small piece of angle iron and a drill if you don't find one. Absolutely make sure you install one though.