Titles & Virginia

[SierraHotel]

Chuck,
I’m a simple man and call it as I see it (usually quite bluntly) and I expect the same from others, so no offense taken. I do have a bill of sale from my seller, as well as a signed odometer statement. If I use the bill of sale with no title, it runs into other issues. Using the SF-97 and bill of sale is not a good idea (as I found out).
I intend to call the seller to my seller on Monday to see if he has a letter from GL granting limited power of attorney (I would think that if he did have it, it has gone bye-bye in the intervening three years. As he is a Sherriff’s deputy, perhaps he has some strings he can pull and would be kind enough to pull them for me. Personally, I do not have the balls to ask someone to go 100 miles to Richmond to fix this SNAFU…nor do I think they would do it (I’m not sure I would, and I try really hard to be honorable). That said, I still have options before I break down and cry (or do some serious drinking, I haven’t decided yet)…

Contact the deputy and see if he has anything that will help or has strings he can pull.
Ask, then badger, and then threaten GL to do the right thing (starting out nice and then increasing pressure commensurate with the resistance I receive).
Go the VSA 12 route.
Petition our Governor and Senator.
Get a judge to assign me the vehicle

After that…well if you hear news about a guy on top of a 7-11 with a rifle…well you may want to delete any references to me…

Seriously, I cannot fathom there is not a way out of this, given the proper amount of persuasion, persistence and being an out and out pain in the ass. At the very worst, someone, somewhere will tire of my letters, phone calls, etc. and give in. I seriously hope it easier than that, as I am sure there are other Virginians that need relief from the warring regulations of GL and the Virginia DMV. My biggest worry is that I am running out of local DMV’s to go to and sooner or later I will become notorious (and be spending a lot of time and gas money going to backwater DMV’s). However, once I make precedence, it should pave the way for others to follow. What a way to start a hobby…!

 

[WillWagner]

My truck was originally given to the Montebello USD, Police Dept. It says that right on the SF97, along with a puschace price of 0$. They never titled it. It sat in their yard 8 years. I got the truck with the original SF97 and a release of liability..not a bill of sale, on the city letterhead, and the city put the SF 97 in a typewriter...yes, a typwriter, crossed out the 0$ and re typed $600.00. I originally went to the DMV. The people there were, to say it nicely,walking, talking anuses. Didn't wanna help in the slightest. I feel your frustration. Then I remembered about a place by me that registrers salvage vehicles...they have inspectors etc. Went there with a question, they said not a problem. Drove the truck there, they verified the vin..."N/A" was typed in the VIN box on the SF97. 4 weeks later, a Ca "pinkslip" truck is mine. You have the SF97 that released it to the sherriff guy. Why do they even need to know about the paintball guy?. Who cares if it sat. Does a hotrod guy go out and register his non driveable 34 coupe before it's road ready and still in pieces parts? No, someone is gonna need to verify a VIN. Maybe see if there is a place close to you that does the salvage thing or a place that is, how you say, like the right hand of the DMV, put privatly owned, ie AAA or Bobs DMV registration or the like

 

[builder77]

Hey if you go to the 7-11 with the rifle drive the deuce. That way if they confiscate your ride the next guy will get a title at the police auction

The Va. DMV definatly knows about GL's practices. Another guy here who was exploring this with me got in touch with a friend in the DMV titling dept. and apparently this is not a new problem. Never heard of a solution though on the consumer level though.

I am thinking of trying your VSA 12 idea a shot for one of the trailers and see how that goes. Going to the main Richmond DMV is no problem for me. Actually if I can fill out one of these I will fill one for each vehicle, so if the first pans out I can feed them the rest.

 

[Recovry4x4]

One time I had trouble obtaining a title. Sent the truck to a friend tow yard for 37 days. After that he applied for a storage lein and got the paper trail going. When it was all over and done with, I got the title and cost was just over $200. Your mileage may vary.

 

[ida34]

. You have the SF97 that released it to the sherriff guy. Why do they even need to know about the paintball guy?. Who cares if it sat. Does a hotrod guy go out and register his non driveable 34 coupe before it's road ready and still in pieces parts?

Will,
Your truck did not come out of GL. The PD got it direct from DRMO so the SF-97 had their "name" on it. The sf-97s coming from a GL sale have GL as the buyer. This is the part of the problem. The original purchaser from GL would have gotten a notized statement giving them legal authority to title the vehicle in their name. The 97 that bo had does not have any other name on it other then GL.
Your hotrod guy would have a title from the guy he purchased it from. If he was making a new car out of misc parts then he would get a vehicle inspection and the state would issue a vin on a newly constructed car. The vehicle would not be a 32 hotrod. It would be a 2006 32 hotrod replica. Boyd Coddington got in trouble for trying to sell a vehicle as a 32 when the only thing left on the car that was a 32 was maybe the body or just the paperwork. This is a whole discussion in itself.
Most states say that if you make changes to a car that appreciable change it you have to get a new vin. This does not mean a new engine or body effects kit. What this does mean is that if you take a mustang chassis and add a Shelby Cobra body kit on it you can't title it as a mustang anymore. You also can't title it as a 69 Shelby cobra. You have to get it registered as a newly built shelby replica. I have a new cab for my Ford F-350 to replace a rusted out cab. When I get it done I need to get an inspection and a new state issued vin. I have created a new vehicle for legal purposes.
A word of caution. NEVER REMOVE A VIN PLATE. Doing so or changeing the plate to another vehicle is a felony.

Bo,
I was giving you the worst case scenario. I doubt anyone will come to claim the truck. After all, we are not talking about a 70 hemi cuda.

Everyone remember. If you don't get a title on an vehicle add in some money for the hassle factor when you figure out what you want to spend.

Let us know when you get it all taken care of.

 

[builder77]

If I remember correctly from my past research in Virginia tow yards are required to sell the vehicles at a public auction, so that is no good. In Virginia you can have a vehicle abandoned on your own property, but the second paragraph concerns me.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-1208

 

[WillWagner]

Yes, my junk was at El Toro DRMO. Then, since GL is technicaly the 1st buyer...no bill of sale from them..NOW I get it! I just didn't understand what the big deal was cause I thought GL was Uncle Sam. Now I see. Bo, PM me, I have an idea!

 

[ida34]

GL are civilian contractors. They are not government employees but work closely with DRMO. I wish they would lose the contract.

 

[WillWagner]

I am seeing this. Seem like crooks!

 

[ARMYMAN30YearsPlus]

The old DRMO auctions, though longed for by types like me will sadly most likely not return due to the information age that finds most of us metal benders and wrench turners sitting at a TV with a disjointed typewriter engaging our fingers. I believe the correct way to handle this is to have consensus on the issues and confront the contractor and DLA with anything that goes against the citzen trying to deal with the government. In this day of democratic tom foolery our rights are slowly slipping away and we need to stop that and get back to the rights given to us by the US Constitution. A simple notorized statement should be good enough to solve this but the endless bureaucrats are getting their paychecks by inserting themselves in the process.

We should get state groups together so that when an issue comes up like this we could present a unified posistion on what common sense tells us should be done. I hope you get through this but if you don't Maryland just up north has not given me much problem registering my MV's both prime movers and trailers. An out of state transfer may be the solution to this although I hope it does not have to come to that.

 

[builder77]

SierraHotel was the first owner of your truck the Sheriffs Department or the Sheriff personal purchase from GL?

Anyways I spent most of the day at DMV offices waiting in line. Most of it was for non-GL things though. I did try to make contact with the titling department. Unfortunaltly the person who I need to talk to was out. I waited one hour just to find that out I have a GL pickup tomorrow that is probably going to prevent me from going back, but hope to try again on wednesday. They have short hours though with T-day.

 

[SierraHotel]

My understanding is that a sheriff’s deputy bought it (personally) and then immediately sold it to the gentleman that sold it to me. Of course, typical for this odyssey, the number I have for the sheriff’s deputy is incorrect, so I am back trying to get in touch with my seller and get the correct number (I probably transposed the numbers somewhere). I got the affidavit notarized today and hope to take an early lunch and go to the Chantilly DMV tomorrow if the sheriff’s deputy route does not bear fruit. It is possible that he has additional paperwork or will grease the skids for me with DMV.

 

[builder77]

Oh I should say that I went to the main Richmond location for the GL title. The teller went back and forth with someone in the back. After asking if this was an online sale she said something about them not offering titles anymore for this. The person in the back was familiar with GL from our conversation with the teller.

If you know the county the depty works and his name you should just be able to leave a message with his department.

 

[SierraHotel]

Talked to Gene and struck out. Since I was not the original buyer from GL, she cannot send me a reassignment letter. Yes, I probably should not have let her in on the fact I was not the original buyer, but she asked me a direct question and I am not up to lying at this point yet. Just for the record, Gene was very cordial and her number is 1 (480) 367-1300, extension 266. Try giving her a call builder77, sounded like she would do it with no problem if I know the lot & auction number.

 

[builder77]

Well it sounds like all you need is a helpful original buyer to get in touch with Gene and you have this figured out. If for some reason you have to find the original auction listing you might be able to use one of the internet archieves to find it. Maybe searching with the VIN. Otherwise lots of looking.

Yeah getting the titles is no problem for me. They just want $60 extra per which I have no interest in paying as this sould have been included with the sale. If I can find a way to obtain a title without helping GL by next monday then I will do so. Otherwise i'll what I have to get my title.

 

[builder77]

SierraHotel have you had any luck yet with your titling PITA? I got a call back from the titling department today saying that I should turn in the Affidavit in lieu of title along with a form 17(Regular title form), and the bill of sale. I hope the sales invoices signed by the site attendant will suffice. Anyways I will have that turned in tomorrow morning. With luck I will have this all taken care of by X-mas.

 

[SierraHotel]

I’m still playing phone tag with the Sheriff. I figure I’d try to go the legit way first. If I get no satisfaction, I have the affidavit filled out and notarized and I can always threaten everyone with legal troubles. However, I REALLY do not want to do that (threaten)….not my style. I hope to have things going forward by the end of this week. Of course it is Wednesday…and I’m still spinning all 10 wheels in the mud. Just hope the weeds do not get wrapped around my axels…

 

[builder77]

Whoo hooo I got my three titles today. I think I am happier then when I actually picked up my vehicles. It took me about three hours and persistence, but I won. I even got them to credit my tax I paid to Pa. (If GL paid?) to cover my tax on these vehicles. They were reluctant on the tax for a while though. They got me good though when I asked to purchase the registration and plates for the truck at $160 per year for the truck due to the weight. That is almost twice the price of the insurance. So I am one electrical glitch and the safety inspection away from being 100% legal on the road.

 

[SierraHotel]

Okay, of Master of the Virginia DMV Bureaucracy, how did you do it? I have a SF97, but no receipt…at least not from GL. Were receipts and affidavits a part of your or will just the affidavit work. I could care less about the taxes…I just want the title. Although GL has changed most of their auctions…they still have a few stating they will give no SF97 or titling documents. Think it’ll help?

 

[builder77]

Well like all bureaucrats you have to remember to smile and be nice, because they can screw you over. Even when you want to reach over the counter and strangle them SMILE and tell them you like their dress. Oh and look trustworthy. Seriously though from what they said they would NOT just accept an Affidavit in Lieu without getting approval from the titling department. I had to drop names with all the people I had talked to about this. So first thing you need to do is contact the DMV Titling Dept. and explain everything. Personally I would do this by email, so you can present your situation as you have a more complicated situation. The DMV website has a contact form that would be a good first contact. You can always try later calling if nothing happens. http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/utilities/contact.asp

They told me to bring the following info:
Affidavit in Lieu of Title – Notarized.
Bill of Sale
VSA 17A (Regular registration form)

I also made sure I brought the original invoice that I had the GL guy sign. A printout of the auction listing along with pictures. I also brought a signed VIN verification that a local officer friend helped me out with. This was going to be sent in with my SF-97 request to GL if I had had to go that way.

I personally think that you should just be upfront with what is up with your truck and its chain of ownership. They are going to ask for the history of it anyways when they see it has never been titled, and they will want it traced all the way back to the DRMO. I am thinking that after you have gotten approval to turn it in I would come to the central Richmond location they seem to be more knowledgeable; also all the important people are there. Oh another thing is get there before noon as it looks like everyone takes off from work early to go to the DMV. Last Tuesday’s wait was about one hour getter there around 2pm. Today I waited five minutes getter there at 11:30am.

My case is easy though. Your two prior owners made a mess of this for you, as they did not sell this thing legally. Being nice with them is cool, but your titling mess should have been taken care of before you. If the affidavit does not work I guess you can always try to get the original owner to get this straight with GL and the DMV, or try a titling service.

Good luck