towing a deuce

[stumps]

i know how to read and know the difference between gvrw and tow capacity , and payload . if you were correct my f250 i had that was rated at 12500 would only be able to tow 6000 since the truck weighed 6500+ hmmm no it was rated to haul 12500 they are assuming you have proper brakes and tongue weight . in the manual i was looking at it broke it down to tonguw weight and everything

The PU truck manufacturers have been locked into a race of towing weight and cargo weight on their trucks. They pull like the d ickens. But when it comes time to stop, you have a set of 1940's designed surge brakes, or electric brakes between your life and death.

There are two ratings on every pickup truck one is GVWR, and the other is GCVWR. The first is the maximum weight the tires of the truck can ever put on the road. The second is the maximum weight the tires of the truck, and the tires of the trailer can ever put on the road.

Your towing capacity is your GCVWR minus your truck weight. That is how GCVWR is defined.

I would be deeply surprised to find your F250 weighs 6500 lbs. It might have a GVWR that is 6500 lbs. If so, it is really a 1/2T PU truck. My F250 has a GVWR of 8600 lbs, and weighs 4900 lbs. It was as big as they came in 1986. Now days, Ford takes the same chassis, puts heavier springs, and a bigger motor in it and says it is a bottom end F350.

-Chuck

 

[jollyroger]

I am just glad no one got hurt. Safety is of the highest priority when towing anything. I don't think that is in question. Sometimes stuff just happens. Tires fail. Brakes fail. We drive over our capabilities and or over what the conditions allow. I'm not saying the guy was right or wrong. I was not there. I don't know all the circumstances and I don't want to speculate on those circumstances.

There are inherant risks with doing anything. I personally don't think towing a deuce on a trailer is any less safe than driving the deuce just so long as the towing equipment is capable, the regs are followed and caution is used. Which is the same path that should be followed when driving the deuce on the road.

A $7200 tow bill seems extreme for the circumstances as described at the beginning post. That dollar amount could buy a lot of stuff from GL. For that money one could buy a couple deuces from GL and have them shipped across the country. I would be looking for alternatives.

 

[adrianspeeder]

I would be deeply surprised to find your F250 weighs 6500 lbs.

The 02 crew 4x4 diesel tips the scales at 8100 wet, and the 08 4x2 reg cab diesel rolls at 7400. The superdutys are portley trucks.

Adrianspeeder

 

[tm america]

my truck was a 1988 f250 extended cab lond bed had a gvrw of 9200 with a 460 plow and dump kit it tipped the scales at 6800lbs with the gas tank on e.cerdified scale i used it to scrap and had it across the scale every other week and i know what gcvrw is and i know what gvrw is you need to read the owners manual i am talking about since you are talking about something you know nothing about .shot you dont even have any idea how much a truck weighs. do your reseach before adding to a thread please .and they dont just put a bigger motor in the truck and call it a f350 the are thinker frames .they are a 34 inch frame same as a deuce and any other heavy truck .they have bigger bigger brakes stiffer springs .they have bigger rear ends heavier duty transmissions and in most cases they have sway bars that an f150 doesnt have .so guys please go get yourself some chevy and ford manuals you are badly misinformed it is clear as day in black and white.you,re telling me about something i already know .im looking at my sales add for a 1988 ford truck it lists the gcvrw for a super duty with a 7.3 at 27000 and 26000 with the gas engine.and it lists the trailer towing capacity for the f350 at 10000 with a 460 and 12500 with a fifth wheel these are listed in the manual just as i said when they talk about towing capacity they do not talk about gcvrw just what it can tow since tow capacity is not just the gcvrw - the weight of the truck there is other things that go into figuring tow capacity .tow capacity is ussually less than gcvrw- the weight of the truck since they allow for passengers and take tongue weight into consideration which is ussually 15% of thet trailer weight the tongue weight is always different than the payload to since it is at the back of the frame taking weight off the front tires where payload goes on the rear and some on the front . a truck that has a 4000lbs payload will not have a 4000lbs tongue weight capacity it will be somewhere in the 1200lbs area. thats why they dont make hitches with for a f350 that have a 4000lbs tongue rating .you are gonna confuse gcvrw with tow capacity and everyone that takes your advise with have their truck seriously over loaded or will have the trailer light in the front to meet the load capacity for each axle when they pass a weigh station which will be unsafe without proper loading of the trailer it can make the trailer very unstable

 

[tm america]

so stumps and westex i hope you read my last post and it helped you guys understand what tow capacity is since it is very different than gcvrw and mistaking the two will get you into trouble fast.yes i agree you should never exceed the gcvrw but you can be under the gcvrw and still be over the trailer tow capacity for your truck .and having to much tongue weight is a very bad thing when it comes to stopping the truck ,the post is about towing a deuce on a trailer .and this means looking at the tow capacity of the truck they were using and looking at weather they had the right amount of tongue weight since these are the things that got them in trouble .a tire blew out and sent them into a ditch this happens when you are misloaded i.e not enough tongue weight or to much. which will cause you to sway uncontrolably. yes being over the gcvrw will make it hard to stop but this post is about someone ending up in a ditch not someone sliding throught a stop sign and rear ending someone. so stumps and westex are both wrong wwrong wrong

 

[tm america]

gcrvw is not the weight ot the truck plus the weight of the trailer it is the total weight of truck,payload and trailer a truck that has a tow capacity of 10000and the truck weight is 6200 might have a gcvrw of 18000 -20000 . since the manufacter knows the truck cant handle a tongue weight of more than 1000lbs even though it has a payload capacity of 3000

 

[FMJ]

so if something like that happens and you could get yourself out, fix tire or whatever and get yourself back on the road, you can't? is there some kind of law against it?

Exactly what I was thinking, if it was not a traffic hazard whats the deal?, let the owner take care of it. Or maybe someone has a sweetheart deal with the county for all wrecker services. . . .

 

[tm america]

another thing they might be looking at is the trailer in some states any trailer with more than two axles is considered comercial and requires its own insurance and forces you to have a cdl.if the police had it towed they should have givin you a ticket .what ever is on the ticket is what you need to worry about proving you were correct on or you,re not gonna get out of the ticket or especially not the tow bill . unless you can prove it was unlawfully towed you are pretty much stuck with paying the bill or loosing your truck and trailer most imounds have the right to crush any vehicle after 30 days

 

[tblackbu_77]

I just got home 8 hrs ago from my Deuce recovery at Frankfort. From there to home was 530miles. We used my buddies F550 which has the 7.3 and a 10 ton tandem axle goose neck trailer. when we got her loaded you could tell she was back there. Coming out of KY wasn't bad, we crawled through WV, some of the curves even at 50 MPH were nerve racking. It took 10 hrs to get home but we're all home and safe.

In no way could I see making that trip with anything smaller than a F550. Lose control in a F250 or 2500 series and that 20k load is going to use you and the truck as a speed bump.

Todd

 

[tm america]

oh ya if you were over 26000 gcvrw you need to have a cdl and that gives them the right to to if you didnt have one even if you were pulled of on the shoulder changing a flat thats probably why they are hitting you with a big tow bill .if they got you for that you are gonna have a big fine when you go to court to

 

[tm america]

tblackbu i agree with that but even with the f550 you need a cdl to pull a deuce cuz of the total weight being over 26000 .shot you need a cdl to pull a deuce behind a deuce with a tow bar 13000+13000+ 100lbs for a tow bar=26100 or cdl however you look at it

 

[stumps]

Wow TM! I don't know what to say. You have achieved rant.

GCVWR is the maximum weight the tires of the truck and the trailer can put on the road ever.

The maximum tow capacity can never be greater than GCVWR minus the truck weight. That is a bounding condition. As you said (and I didn't think needed saying), It will be less. Any weight the truck is carrying be it the driver, tongue weight, fuel weight, or payload has to come from the maximum tow capacity.

This is trivial arithmetic. You have a budget (GCVWR), you cannot exceed it.

Getting into load distribution is a whole other topic that I felt would far exceed the needs of this discussion.

Exceeding your trucks GCVWR will do more than make it hard to stop. It will make it unsafe to drive. It can introduce a host of stability issues that will very often result in the tow vehicle being tossed around. The tail wagging the dog, so to speak. Ask the man in the ditch.

-Chuck

 

[rlwm211]

I have yet to see a tandem axle trailer with single tires that really is rated to haul 13000 pounds payload. If anything, tire capacity is the limiting issue.

The tow bill is a ridiculous amount, but in the Kommunist State of Massachusetts (I am assuming it was in MASS) you are at the mercy of the state when you are on the interstate. I am not sure if anyone noticed that was where this happened. The author referred to the "Big Road".

Another observation is that if a tire blew and control was lost, the vehicle was overloaded. Period.

I think a lot of interesting points have been made, but the loss of control is the one that is most relevant. If the towing vehicle and trailer combination had been up to the task it would not have gone off the road. Redendancy is our friend, it why the military put duals on deuces and why the truck has tandem axles. Redundancy is our friend and our safety factor.

 

[tm america]

load distibution is key to this post not gcvrw he blew a tire and ended up in a ditch this only happened for one reason load distibution he didnt have a hard time stoping if you blow a tire it causes a sway . it can be controlled if proper weight distribution is used .if not enough tongue weight there will not be enough traction in the rear of the tow vehicle and will make the rear tires slide side to side causing a change in direction.if you have to much tongue weight it will be picking up on the front tires making the front tires loose traction and you will loose the ability to steer and stop properly all these problems can happen well under the rated gcvrw .this is what happened here .my guess is that with a four axle trailer being bumper pulled there was not enough tongue weight for the load being towed and when the tire blew the back of the tow vehicle pushed to the side pointing him straight into the ditch adding more weight to the back of the tow vehicle could have prevented this from happeningi would say yes rant but peoples lives are at stake and proper loading of the trailer is vital and not exceeding the tow capacity is just as important as not exceeding the gcvrw and they are three very different things weigh distibution is probably the most important factor to stability and safe driving if you take a truck that weighs 5000lbs and has a gcvrw of 15000 lbs put a 10000lbs trailer behind it shift the load to the back where it has no tongue weight and try to turn a corner or stop youll know why this is important real quick.or load your 10000lbs trailer so it has 5000lbs tongue weight and do the same we wont be talking about how its not important to this post and you'll have a clear understanding of why he ended up in the ditch

 

[tm america]

i have my chauffers license and have been bonded and insured and registered with the state of indiana to move house trailer i have pulled 40000lbs house trailer with a 12000lbs truck properly and know the laws and how things should be loaded .untill you have done what it takes to bumper pull heavy loads for a living and have done so please dont confuse people on safe towing practices.i have had tires blow out on 30000lbs trailer i was pulling and hardly even knew it happened cuz i had the right amount of tongue weight. every house trailer i pulled i had to let them know what truck was gonna be pulling it ,my route and when i was gonna be pulling it .trust me i know what i'm taking about here

 

[tblackbu_77]

tblackbu i agree with that but even with the f550 you need a cdl to pull a deuce cuz of the total weight being over 26000 .shot you need a cdl to pull a deuce behind a deuce with a tow bar 13000+13000+ 100lbs for a tow bar=26100 or cdl however you look at it

I fully agree. I got my Class A CDL's when I was in management training for a trucking company I worked right out of college, and I refuse to give them up.(especially in cases like this)

 

[tm america]

tblackbu its good to see someone is towing safely and legally i gave my cdl up after i gave up the moving house trailers for a living .this is gonna be something we hear more and more about since these trucks are going so cheap on the gl and people are gonna do what they have to to get them home

 

[DUG]

tm america - I don't know what happened to your CAPS key man, but it caused me to skip 95% of what you typed.

 

[rlwm211]

I would apologize as I misread the initial post and thought we were dealing with a tandem axle trailer.


Four axles certainly makes enough load carrying capacity. I also noticed it was a bumper hitch type of rig (probably a pintle hitch). The fact it is not a 5th wheel increases the sway induced by the trailer on the towing vehicle and does make any incident that affects the trailer have a much greater effect on the towing vehicle.

If the load was too far back on the trailer as mentioned in a recent post any event regarding the trailer would cause a swaying that could result in an unrecoverable situation where control would be lost.

I would offer that I would rather not tow at 45 on an interstate as you are bound to attract attention, some of it from LEO's.

If the driver got out of this without a slew of tickets he should count himself lucky. The Mass Turnpike is not a place to have anything untoward happen to anyone.

The official: "Turnpike Designated tow operators" are unmerciful and you have no choice on who recovers your vehicle.

For the sake of the hauler I hope he gets the deuce and trailer back.

Just my two cents

RL

 

[BKubu]

Chuck, you are 100% correct. The problem is many guys think checking the fluids is checking the truck over.