Transfer Case Mounts & High Range Pop-out

[SteveKuhn]

Questions 1st, explanation 2nd; TM highlighted below. I don't think this duplicates another thread.
- Does anyone know a NAPA or other civilian part # for transfer case bushings/mounts (12 & 19 in the TM)?
- Is there anything special about the bolts, nuts, and washers that go with them? I'd like to replace them, too.

I've already started contacting the usual vendors for pricing and availability for the above.
- Any experience with pop-outs in high range when 12 & 19 are hard and compressed that was fixed when they were replaced?
- Other comments?

On Memorial Day, my transfer case began to pop out of high range, particularly on shifts to/from 2nd <-> 4th. The lever had always waved back to front a few inches under pressure.

I read all of the threads on transfer cases about worn internals and other possible causes. Last fall, about 600 miles ago, there were only moderate filings on the plug when I changed the gear oil. Dirty but unburned.

I bought a Rockwell-rebuilt case and picked it up at COMVEC. Don't regret that so far. I've done about 150 or so miles with the lever bungeed - no pop-outs.

In preparation for installation, we went over the truck in detail yesterday, trying to anticipate what to have on hand. We found that most of the mounts were loose and that we couldn't really torque down nuts 12 & 19 in the TM because the rubber bushings/mounts are compressed and hard.

We torqued everything to spec as best we could and in 25 mins of local traffic driving afterward with lots of shifts up and down, it only popped 3x (95%+ improvement.) The transmission grinding that I feared was either that going too or me losing my touch disappeared and shifts were clean and solid.

My decision now is whether to replace those mounts and leave the old transfer case in place, hoping that new mounts will eliminate the pop outs, or just swap it and get it over with. Maybe sell the old one if we can check it on the bench and determine that it's OK.

If I was set up better and a better wrencher, it wouldn't be a decision - I'd do the mounts only 1st. However, I need to have either job done and mounts-only is going to cost a considerable portion of what the swap does in labor. Course, then I'd have a top notch transfer case either in reserve or for sale.

Comments and part numbers welcome.

Thanks.

Steve

 

[73m819]

I have heard others say loose bolts will cause the transfer to drop out of high, think the BOUNCE of the shift handle caused by trans shifting, coupled with a worn syncro. causes this.

 

[gringeltaube]

The lever moving up-down a "few inches" is a lot of inertia!

The bolts in the bushings are shouldered, so you cannot over-compress them (or re-tighten the assembly, in this case). But you could always make a few rubber washers, cut out from inner tube or so, to supplement the original bushings and have everything firmly in place again.

Now, do not expect this to "fixing" a worn synchro or dogs on the gears...! Once they start jumping out of gear there is no easy (or cheap) cure.

G.

 

[G-Force]

Steve,
I would definitely change the rubber bushings first and see how it goes. Worse comes to worse the transfer case will still pop out and you'll have to replace the case with the one you bought. And if you go with just replacing the transfer case you're going to need the bushings anyway. So I'd get them and replace them first...what have you got to lose.......

 

[Bill W]

You could also buy a $1.99 door bolt to keep the lever from bouncing out of high, worked for me

 

[SteveKuhn]

"...what have you got to lose......." G-Force

Thanks. You and Joanne are on the same page. Probably a couple hundred dollars in labor but I'd gain a clearer answer on the condition of the current TCase.

BTW, I found I can get the bushings from Clarke for about $75 for the set.

I'm wondering if I underestimated the severity of the filings on the drain plug last fall. Here are before and after photos. Before is a bit fuzzy and there was more sludge than filings. I dumped these from a video of cleaning it.

Steve

 

[SteveKuhn]

"...You could also buy a $1.99 door bolt..." Bill W

Oh, that's slick! OTOH, it suggests an air of permanence that ain't gonna happen - and it's still $1.99 more than the rubber bungee I'm using now that I found beside the park on Memorial Day.

 

[G-Force]

Steve,
You could probably do it yourself....I mean changing the bushings.....

 

[Bill W]

"...You could also buy a $1.99 door bolt..." Bill W

Oh, that's slick! OTOH, it suggests an air of permanence that ain't gonna happen - and it's still $1.99 more than the rubber bungee I'm using now that I found beside the park on Memorial Day.

Yes there is a air of permanence with this setup, When I first bought my deuce it had a bungee cord hook to the lever and it would still pop out of high when crusing down the road so I installed this setup until I could find a better TC. I have since changed out that TC and its worn out gears for another TC which seems to work fine ( no popping out of gear ) but I still use it anyway.

 

[SteveKuhn]

Interesting. We were talking at COMVEC about why the TCs pop out. The theory was offered that in part, it's because high range is up instead of down. If down, then the bulk of the shifts would, in effect, have the handle blocked and not allow it to have the play to wear. I actually thought (not too seriously) about how one would hack the linkage to reverse the throw for the ranges. If that theory holds water, your bolt is a far more elegant solution.

The thought was that up-for-high was a bad design idea. Thinking about it, maybe that was a conscious decision thinking that low range would be the primary use and it's just that we're using it most in what was supposed to be a secondary role.

So . . . Thanks. Mebbe I'll spend that $1.99 after all.

Steve

 

[SteveKuhn]

"...Steve, I would definitely change the rubber bushings first and see how it goes. Worse comes to worse the transfer case will still pop out and you'll have to replace the case with the one you bought. And if you go with just replacing the transfer case you're going to need the bushings anyway. So I'd get them and replace them first...what have you got to lose....... " G-Force

That's just what I did but I didn't end up changing the bushings myself. I prepped the seat and tunnel and then yesterday G-Force came down and we chocked, blocked, and jacked, and about 2 1/2 hours later, the new bushings were installed. The old ones were worn through to metal and significantly compressed and hardened. Which begs the question of the engine mounts' condition.

We reinstalled the seat but left the tunnel open for observation, and took it for a ride. Unfortunatey the lever still popped out of high range. However, the transmission shift grinding that had crept in over the months was completely solved by torquing the various TCase mounting bolts to spec. Anyone with grinds in shifting would be wise to do that simple check.

I was fixing to update this thread when Mike left me know he'd sent a PM on what we found and was pointed to this link [FONT=&quot]http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/14890-slipping-out-high-3.html#post534106[/FONT] for a bit more checking before swapping the case.

I had actually read and saved that thread it when researching TCase trouble, prior to purchasing the replacement, whereupon I sorta put it out of mind. My luck for easier fixes doesn't seem to be running, but after rereading it, it sure makes sense to do a bit more inspecting before doing the swap. The tunnel is still open.

Steve

 

[SteveKuhn]

Well, Mike came down some days ago and we took off the inspection plate and peered around alot without finding anything that seemed obvious:

• Spring was only .1 mm compressed
• Plunger wasn't worn or dinged
• Couldn't get the ball out but looking down the hole it seemed smooth & round.
• Shaft has a mark where the ball rides (see photo) but you can't feel it so it isn't scored
• None of the gears looked chewed up to us.
• Gasket paper had disintegrated so I'm thinking that was some of the sludge I found when I changed the oil.

Left things percolate since then preparing to make a new gasket to move the truck a short distance for the transfer case replacement.


Here are a couple of photos from that inspection plate session.

 

[SteveKuhn]

Today I read the the -34 TMs yet again then went out with 2 kinds of gasket material, my new HFreight hole punches, a tube of Permatex black and a scraper to make a new temp gasket. Didn't get it done yet. Found some interesting stuff and kept running back 'n forth between the truck and the computer with TMs and Google.

• The TMs show a different gasket with an open center. You can see mine was solid with 2 vent holes in the remnants. TM, replacement part (uploaded to the wrong place), and plate with remnant photos below.
• I got intrigued again with why it was popping out and ended up snapping some photos of the shaft. In order left to right: High range fully engaged. High range just at the point it pops out. (A little pressure and it snaps into neutral. Note the distance of travel.) Neutral. Low. Seems like there's something worn that you can't see from the views in my prior post.

Might get to scraping and punching that temporary gasket a bit later. Wondering:

• Can I get away with plain 'ole air/water paper as for thermostats and air cleaners? Seems like that was what was on it. Or;
• Should I use the rubberized oil/gas resistant stuff from the assortment I bought?

Seems the paper will last good enuf for the couple of miles it'll go. Even considered using the black Permatex since I don't think much gear oil will blow out the uncovered vent.


Comments or criticism on anything welcome.


Thanks,


Steve

 

[73m819]

A cereal box makes a great gasket,

If you can get to the detent ball spring, stretch it so the ball has a pretty good load on it in the detent, you have nothing to loose, if the synchros are going out, at some point NOTHING will keep the transfer from dropping out of gear except a positive lock pin or gate.

 

[gringeltaube]

........peered around alot without finding anything that seemed obvious........

It could be the photo but those synchro dogs show the typical wear; enough to be jumping out - if this was confirmed.
Maybe you could post some better close-up's; especially where the arrows point at...???


G.

 

[73m819]

It could be the photo but those synchro dogs show the typical wear; enough to be jumping out - if this was confirmed.
Maybe you could post some better close-up's; especially where the arrows point at...???


G.

YEP MR. G.
Sure looks like wear, as I said there is no fixing other then a postive lock

 

[SteveKuhn]

Sure. I happened to take these 10. It's the only angle where I could get a shot. Wasn't sure what I was looking for. I wasn't sure if they were to be 90 degree corners or beveled to a peak like that. I was looking for them to be showing scratches, gouges, etc. I had no actual photos to compare them.

Thanks again for the comment.

Steve

 

[gringeltaube]

FYR, below are some pics of a real bad one... Sorry I don't have a brand new (un-installed) synchro, to show for comparison.

Note the wear pattern (shiny area) on the "drive" side of the dogs, of both parts: significantly tapered to-wards the tip. Who knows how long that assembly had been working engaged only halfway; the clutch ring & fork presented extreme wear... probably accelerated from an array of bungee cords tied to the lever....!?

So far I have examined the dogs of various T-cases jumping out of gear; and my conclusion is that it really doesn't take too much of "visible" wear on the dog's faces, for that to happen. Its more like all play and wear combined, causing this. So probably just exchanging/ fixing one of all related components would make it last "another while"... (still need to try re-shaping/ machining those dogs)

... or simply swapping the whole thing - while the supply of new / gov. rebuild units lasts.


G.