Transmission Blues

[USDragoon]

Hello Everyone!

I’m the new guy on the forum- I own a deuce- and I need some advice.

Here’s the story.

I bought a 1971 M35A2 W/W a couple months back. The place I bought it from in Lamar, Colorado were really nice folks and tried to make sure everything was right, however… the PTO & shaft was missing. The guy spent several hours locating and installing the PTO. It was a pain to install because of the bolts being so close to the tranny case. After that was installed, he couldn’t find a PTO shaft that would fit. He fabricated one from a similar truck and sent it UPS the following week. Like I said, nice guy. Went out of his way as far as I was concerned to make sure the truck would make the 180 miles home. The truck came with a new generator, great tires with a spare, new belts, half a tank fuel, new clutch and brakes, he had the fluids checked and the tires aired up properly. All the basic stuff one would expect when buying a used vehicle.
By the time I made it to La Junta, Colorado, fifth gear went out. I made it home as the sun disappeared behind the mountains in fourth gear.
I took it to my mechanic the following day, who is also a friend of mine. He said it should be OK to continue to drive since he believes 5th gear is located at the top of the transmission. Also, the driving I do, and will be doing with the truck, is mostly on secondary unpaved county roads. No real need for fifth. He said I should be fine as the metal that’s sheared is now at the bottom of the tranny pan.

I think what happened to cause 5th to go out in the first place was the installation of the PTO. I was reading one of the tech manuals and apparently the PTO took just enough of the oil from the transmission when we refilled. I say we, because I did assist in the installation. It was hot that day, my wife and I traveled the 180 miles to get the truck. We wanted to get home before dark. Anyhow, I was informed lately, that if the 5th gear is at the top of the transmission, then there probably was not enough oil to keep it lubed, and caused it to burn out.

The physical symptom is I put it in fifth, and it pops out to neutral immediately. If I try and hold it in fifth, it really kicks back hard to neutral. All the other gears work fine. I’m afraid to engage the PTO and try the winch out, or try out low transfer gears until I get a new transmission or get this one fixed.

Any comments or opinions/ knowledge would be greatly appreciated.


Randy

Westcliffe, Colorado


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[topo]

it may be that the teeth on the pto gear and the gear in the transmission are making to much contact and need to be shimed apart . I would take the pto off put the cover back on and fill with gear lube and road test

 

[papercu]

Transmission is a tough cookie, I bought one in the DRMO days, jumped started it and took off home, after 30 miles truck started making so much racket I pulled off and started checking, Transmission had no oil! filled it up and took off again. Never gave a bit of trouble after that. I sold it to a guy that moved houses so it got a workout. Wayne

 

[rosco]

Did you refill the transmission & top it off, after the PTO installlation? I have'nt had that one apart, but on the earlier ones. the input/output shaft is split & there is a pocket bearing with needle roller bearings inside it. With improper lubrication, they starve for lube. Along with other wear on end shaft bearings, it allows the whole main shaft to sag a little. Fourth is straight through - input/output same speed. Fifth has differential motion between the input/output - its apparently doing some serious complaining about its treatment. The above "pocket bearing" also works in the lower gears. If there is serious damage to the bearing/you see any metal in the lube, it will finally gauld and twist off the stub end of the main shaft.

Id be looking for another transmission.

Lee in Alaska

 

[WarCloud]

trans troubles

Well now, isn't THIS an interesting thread.

I bought MY M35A2 from Ranchers' Supply in Lamar, Colorado also. MY 4th gear failed after 15 hrs, and just last week, all of my bellhousing to transmission bolts backed out and the trans fell out of the back of the bellhousing. They had not been safety wired as specified, which means the truck had been worked on by someone. I have just yesterday dropped the trans fully out of the truck, and not a single bolt anywhere was torqued or lockwired.

So someone at Ranchers' Supply fancies himself a military truck mechanic eh? Oh am I gonna drive the battlewagon up to the beach and crank all 9 18 inchers amidships on THIS guy or what!

BTW, yes, the trans capacity is increased with the PTO housing. There is no lube pump in a trans. The lube has to be filled until it is touching the lower shaft and gears so rotation carries the lube up and flings it all over the upper shaft and gears. There is a check plug in the case on the left side. Take it out, and pour in lube until it dribbles out the check hole, then you're full.

 

[tmbrwolf]

RE: trans troubles

The PTO on these is run off the cluster gear in the bottom so it shouldn't cause the tranny to "pop out". In my experiance with these (we repair / rebuild several yearly) is there are two possibe issues, either there is too much end play in the mainshaft, or the 5th gear and syncronizer are shot. Most likely its the Gear / syncronizer worn, the only way to tell for sure is a teardown and inspection, sometimes you can see the wear by just removing the top cover, that can be done in the truck after removing the floorboards. if there is wear replace BOTH the gear and syncro, its useless to reuse either, if one or the other is worn.

 

[WarCloud]

trans

If you have a transmission jack and a concrete floor to work on, you can have it out and on the ground by yourself in no time. I pulled mine totally out yesterday.

I'm curious now, did you buy your truck from Alvin Jones at Ranchers' Supply in Lamar?

 

[gringeltaube]

My words, tmbrwolf!
5th popping out has nothing to do with that PTO installation, not even if there wasn't enough backlash left betw. PTO input gear and corresponding gear on trans.countershaft. And if you refilled the tranny + PTO with only as much oil as you had drained, you were short on lube by approx. 1qt, not a real problem either.
I suspect the same, those parts (fifth gear + synchro) are just worn out and time has come to replace them.
See http://shortlinks.net/wbl285

G.

 

[Trango]

A friend of mine uses a come-a-long and a 2x4 across the (closed) doors to pull deuce transmissions.

If you want help r+r'ing the tranny once it's out of the vehicle, I'm in Boulder with tools aplenty (including press), and I'd be happy to help over some weekend (before skiseason, please. ).

Best,
Bob