transmission swaps

[gungearz]

You can put any transmission in any vehicle. Providing its big enough to work. Alls you have to do is get a trans adapter. A buddy of mine loved Chevy motors and ford transmissions. So he decided to pair a Chevy 350 5.7L 4 bolt to a ford C6 tranny. Then you would most likely need to cut and measure for a new driveshaft.

 

[badassissimo]

Interesting. How much is a trans adapter and how do I look for one? Got to talking to someone with a standard transmission and he said that I would need a different flywheel and then just a clutch, clutch assembly, and clutch pedal. He is selling a chevy transmission though.

Back on the Allison, what kind of control/computer thingy would I need? lol. Should I search for tore up trucks in junkyards?

 

[gungearz]

Google trans adapters. There's plenty of companies that compete on them and most of them are very knowledgeable. They range from around $100 to in the thousands. Depending on the application. I would search truck junk yards for Allison parts.

 

[Tanner]

I'd recommend going with the NV4500, as others have already blazed a trail on this swap. u

Do you want the ZF box because 'it's different', or because you have access to the components? What will you do for a flywheel & clutch? Standard 6.2 flywheel & clutch? 6.5 Dual-mass unit?

'Tanner'

 

[Tanner]

You can put any transmission in any vehicle. Providing its big enough to work. Alls you have to do is get a trans adapter. A buddy of mine loved Chevy motors and ford transmissions. So he decided to pair a Chevy 350 5.7L 4 bolt to a ford C6 tranny. Then you would most likely need to cut and measure for a new driveshaft.

Trans adaptor? Good luck - Ford & GM ZF transmissions both have bell housings specific to their respective engine (GM or Ford) bolt pattern... ZF chose to make the bell housings integrated into the transmission case. So a Ford ZF won't simply bolt up to a GM engine. They are unlike a NV4500/SM465/etc., that can be bolted to the GM bell housing.

'Tanner'

 

[Tanner]

I will be towing up to 8000# at times, and was more concerned with the gear splits than low or tall end of range gears - t-case can take care of low and ring/pinion and tire size the top end.

Also will not be running an overpumped and aggressively tuned/nitrous fed high HP engine - 250 to 400hp max (ideally a supercharged 6.2). Since planning for the Arctic not the desert the air temp issue should be minimal when mostly used at -40 to 50 degrees F.

But the 6 speed NV5600 has better splits (at 67/66/47/39/37 %) and also has an OK 1st and 6th (5.63 and 0.73) but it runs more like $2500 and weighs 330# (+70% or 165# heavier)

As to the height, all 3 require a new transmission tunnel or a body lift so I thought that was a wash... all that is different is the ammount of additional clearance needed.

NOTE: All of this is based on research, not experience. hence the post - theory sometimes lives in a different universe than reality!

400hp 6.2 diesel? Right. With 18.x compression ratio pistons, main stud girdle, turbo or supercharger, etc., etc... maybe 300 daily-driver horsepower.

And you also want durability?

Lift required to install NV4500? Check with the guys on forum that have done the CUCV/NV4500 swap... maybe you'll need to trim / dimple areas of floorpan.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/74764-nv4500-swap-sucess.html

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/80839-nv4500-mechanical-bellhousing.html

'Tanner'

 

[rickf]

most newer trans have to run synthetic lubes because of the tight tolerances. I have driven so many trucks that are (under built)... That when you need everything out of your truck you want to know it has it and more to give, over build and you can always drive with confidence. People tell my all the time turbo 400 auto-trans is bullet proof, With the three i broke this year i am up to 20 in total. Switching to a manual makes the most "cents" and if your going to take the time to go that far go the best.

If you are breaking 400's like that then they are being built wrong. Plain and simple. A buddy of mine has built these for years for everything from daily drivers to pro dragsters. A lot of pro street cars use them along with the 700R4 which is nothing more than a modified 400. What are you doing to break them?

Rick

 

[badassissimo]

I'm going to start looking around for an adapter. I'd like an allison because it will hold up according to everyone I talk to. Would the transfer case still work though? Would I need an adapter for that too?

 

[jrobinson5093]

the allison is huge and heavy like 375# last I heard. Im guessing you are wanting a allison 1000 5 or 6 speed. But you can get a stand alone computer for it and stock it is designed to hold at the least 330 hp and 600 or so ft/lbs. You will need a big cooler for it.

 

[armytruckdriverddsso]

I was an army truck driver i will drive anywhere i want to and pull a 8000# trailer doing it. In the pictures that is a sixty foot tree I drug out of the road. and that is my lovely five foot tall wife.

 

[WARWAG]

Interesting. How much is a trans adapter and how do I look for one? Got to talking to someone with a standard transmission and he said that I would need a different flywheel and then just a clutch, clutch assembly, and clutch pedal. He is selling a chevy transmission though.

Back on the Allison, what kind of control/computer thingy would I need? lol. Should I search for tore up trucks in junkyards?

You really don't want a Allison Transmission. They eat up about 40 to 50 up just to work. In other words they rob you that much power. A popular swap into the Duramax is the 4L80E. Tough as nails and doesn't Rob you tons of horse power! They can be bolted to a 6.5 6.2. There are a bunch of computer controllers for the as well or just go with a mahal shifter for it.

 

[ODdave]

........yup and a 400 eats roughly 40hp and a 4l80e robs slightly more......
Never heard of a 4l80e swap on a d max.....

 

[rickf]

Bigger is not always better. Like I said, If you are tearing up 400's then you either need a different tranny builder or you need to figure out what YOU, not the tranny, is doing wrong. Built right these transmissions are almost indestructible. If you are tearing up the 400's then you will tear up the Allison and that will be a LOT more dollars to fix.

 

[WARWAG]

Fact of the matter is an Allison robs so much horse power that it's a bad idea. That's why sled runners swap in a 4L80E. A TH400 is extremely strong. If you think Allison doesn't use any more HP to operate than a 4L80E or TH400 then your dreaming! But go ahead and do the swap. You have been advised. Have a good day and good luck with that.

 

[armytruckdriverddsso]

No I am talking going manual trans ZF-S6-650 it will hold up to 650 hp with zero loss of power. I have seen more burnt clutches then blown manual trans, and i hate losing power to making something change gears for me where and when it wants to. So yes I am a control freak. and when my 68 GMC with a 250 strait six and 5 speed manual trans can out pull a 2012 GMC with a diesel and Allison trans. I have run more under power engines with manual trans up against bigger engines and auto trans to find any power loss is to much.

 

[skysix]

Glad to see this thread is back on track - the discussion was aimed at non-typical manual transmission swaps not automatic swaps or typical SM465/NV4500 swaps. All are equally valid topics but for another thread.

 

[Keith_J]

Every transmission incurs loss in power, manual transmissions are far more efficient. Lost power is dissipated as heat, the torque converter is the greatest loss.

A steady-state loss of 40 Hp is over 100,000 BTU/hour. Or put in fuel loss, that is about 3 gallons of diesel per hour wasted.

 

[badassissimo]

I did want the 6 speed maunal allison. Sorry for the confusion skysix. I guess I'll give the zf 650 a look if its going to do so much better. Would it bolt easy like the 4L80E and would either match the np205? Moving around isn't the issue, its the extra parts. Slightly underbudget right now if I had to guess but I found a sweet deal on a boat I can sell for a lot more the next state over so the funds are coming if needed.

Rickf, I appreciate the concern. I am a very clumsy everything lol. I don't know how I've made it as an aquarist to be honest. Just broke a glass hood today as a matter of fact. lol. I bougth the m1009 used from a guy who couldnt figure out how to even get it to turn over. I'm pretty sure he fused the dash runnin 24v everything and maybe did what happenned to the trans. I had worked on chevys before and thought I could just buy the parts and the project has gotten more and more wild lol. I've enjoyed the learning curve though. I imagine I could rebuild these on the side if I finish learning. Anyway, the trans was like this when I bought it. I put trans fluid in it to get it to level and noticed a cracked rotted gasket ont he bolt for the engine oil but didn't see the same on the trans. Wouldn't make a difference, the leak is on top or close. I want to try a leak stopper fluid and pray its just a seal at the top. Other than that, the vacuum line is really loose so I'm also hoping the trans works fine anyway.

Even if it does work good which I want to make sure so I can describe it that way and sell it to get a diferent trans with that money, I want a pto on the truck and the whole drivetrain doesn't have it at this time. Could the forward driveshaft be modified to be a pto and would that be at all worth my time? Would consider it. But then again, wasted axle...

 

[ODdave]

Fact of the matter is an Allison robs so much horse power that it's a bad idea. That's why sled runners swap in a 4L80E. A TH400 is extremely strong. If you think Allison doesn't use any more HP to operate than a 4L80E or TH400 then your dreaming! But go ahead and do the swap. You have been advised. Have a good day and good luck with that.

Thats fine as it may rob more but OP wants a reliable dd not a pulling truck. I agree though that the 4l80e is the best choice behind a light diesel, I definatly would not suggest it to beused behind a medium duty diesel where extended reliability is a major issue. Dont get me wrong I agree they all have there place.

 

[badassissimo]

Looks like the zf would be cheaper if im not mistaken. Don't have 1400 at the moment though. Got 3. lol If I can get this boat to turn around and my 125g aquarium sold, I'll have all that and some change if I'm not mistaken. That just leaves the question of the transfer case being compatible. Or, what parts it would need to be compatible. Likewise, driveshaft changes if any.