Trouble-shooting the Protective Control Box in a 5-ton

[Floridianson]

Was thinking about the moisture that get inside the PCB. The ones I have split apart have had poor sealing jobs that allow moisture to get in but not out. What if the had holes like one on the bottom and one or two on the sides. Use WD40 to keep the inside coted and let the air circulate through the box?

 

[MKD73]

Just an update.
Confirmed again with another set of eyes that the solenoids are getting and cycling power when the switch is flipped. Load tested the batteries and one was showing weak so I went with 2 new truck batteries. Still the click of the solenoids but not even an attempt to turn the engine over. Confirmed power to the starter and 'tapped' on the starter with a hammer. Now the first couple times I cycle the start lever I can hear the starter try to engage but no movement beyond that. After a couple of cycles i am back to just the solenoid clicks.

Did I burn up the starter or is there something else I can try before I pull the starter. Also, any leads on a starter in the midwest?
Thanks again!!

 

[Suprman]

Clip lead onto the starter solenoid and tap on the main positive. Good starter will crank.

 

[74M35A2]

The old hammer trick mostly works with 2 people in play. One needs to hold the start switch engaged, and the other to whack the starter motor on the side at the rear. Reason this sometimes works is to jiggle the brushes. A metal brush holder can rust and keep the brushes from extending out, or worn out brushes will have no spring pressure left pushing them into the armature commutator. This is by design.

Starter operation is broken into 2 parts: Solenoid and motor. The solenoid throws the gear out into the flywheel or flexplate teeth. Once this happens, the solenoid closes the two large contacts on the end of it, sending power to rotate the starter motor.

You can check the motor operation by using an old ratty screwdriver across the 2 large solenoid terminals. There will be some sparks, so don’t be surprised. This should rotate the starter but not the engine, if the starter motor itself is good.

As mentioned above, jumping the solenoid small + signal wire to the top solenoid terminal should engage the starter and rotate the engine, if both the starter motor and solenoid are OK.

 

[Floridianson]

You can check the motor operation by using an old ratty screwdriver across the 2 large solenoid terminals. There will be some sparks, so don’t be surprised. This should rotate the starter but not the engine, if the starter motor itself is good. .

Seen that done with 24 volts and it welded the screw driver to the post's. Not the best Idea. Remote starter switch is one answer.

 

[MKD73]

Just an update. I confirmed the starter is bad. I thought I had the correct cross reference for the 11 tooth Delco Remy starter but theirs is 8 kw hp and I believe the one I took off is 10.2 hp. If anyone has a good place to get an 11 tooth starter or the correct cross reference I would appreciate it!

 

[Jbulach]

The old hammer trick...

/\

Hit that guy up, he may be able to help with a new starter. He has a lot more than just a hammer and chisel in his bag of tricks.

 

[74M35A2]

I think I have one 24v one left. Just shipped one out.

 

[Jayrassic]

Madness, pure madness I have never flipped an on off switch back and forth back and forth slow fast faster slower while pushing in while pulling out just thinking I will see a gauge come to life, and the wonderous sound of the low air pressure buzzer kick on... the sound of glory that I can now proceed to cranking her over. Nada Nuttin... off to get 2 new batteries first and then maybe off to find this control box thingamajig.

I think after all the switch flipping I now understand the term "He's Flippin Out" LOL

 

[nayrbrellim]

Well fellas, I went out at lunch and wacked on the PCB with the BFH After a severe beating (not really) and much clicking from On to Off, the gauges finally kicked on! I switch the SRS switch to Run and the CTIS and ABS lights lit up. I flipped it to Start and the ol' 8.3 clattered to life! I let it run for a bit to see if it would charge. I checked the starter solenoid lug and got around 29 volts so I'd say it was in high-charge. Looks like I'll make the Birthday party after all. Also looks like I'll be buying a new PCB from Winslow. He loves to see me coming, right John?!

absolutely outstanding, I had the exact same problem when I got home from work, wanted to take the grandaughter for a ride but Juhnay wouldnt start, same systoms as described above, I came in and found this thread, went back out and utilized a BFH on the PCB and she came to life on first try. Where would be best place to purchase a new one? Im relatively new to hashtag 5tonlife. Thanks guys

 

[CARMAN]

Simp offers them as well.

 

[post 5466]

Thanks everyone for your efforts and tips! It was dark when I got home last night so I didn't get to check anything out. I will work on it tonight. I'll check the grounds first to make sure nothing vibrated loose coming down I-95, since it is such a smooth road If that doesn't help, then I'll wack on it a bit. If it's still a no go, then I may see if I can get it apart to inspect the guts.

I am afraid to rig the engine to get it to start. The PCB controls too many things. It energizes the alt, the CTIS, the ABS. I don't want to break anything expensive. John Winslow is only an hour from here. If I can't get it going, I'll give him a call and see if he has one. I may be able to run down there in time to get one and get back.

can you tell me where or how to get up with John Winslow? I have a 900 series 5 ton with losing voltage while setting have to jump it off it charges but it overcharges the batteries I have load tested all the batteries shows a little week but now the ABS light is on.

 

[Jbulach]

can you tell me where or how to get up with John Winslow? I have a 900 series 5 ton with losing voltage while setting have to jump it off it charges but it overcharges the batteries I have load tested all the batteries shows a little week but now the ABS light is on.

Sadly I think John passed away quite some time ago. Sounds like your PCB box relay or wiring is bad. Unfortunately running it like you describe has likely fried the ABS, and if an A2 the CTIS as well.

Check this thread out. Go to post #26 and use this procedure to start your truck. If your charge gage shows in the normal range with the heavy jumper wire in C&D, your bottom PCB solenoid, or related wiring in the PCB is most likely the culprit. DO NOT REMOVE THE PLUG FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE PCB, OR THE JUMPER FROM THE C&D TERMINALS WHILE THE ENGINE IS RUNNING!

Ever see inside the Protective Control Box?

I had a failure of the PCB in my M925A1 last year. As part of the troubleshooting, I made some notes and took some pictures, attached. Mine was the type with a circuitboard. Hopefully the wiring diagrams will be helpful to someone in troubleshooting. I also put together a little...

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[post 5466]

Thank you so much as soon as I can I will check

 

[post 5466]

Thank you so much as soon as I can I will check

Is there anyway you could contact me via phone? My cell is 828-358-9273. I have trouble finding what I need on steel soldiers. Thank you so much.

 

[kendelrio]

Before buying another PCB, they aren't that difficult to rebuild. I've got a complete thread HERE you should be able to follow pretty easily.