Trying to start a deuce after 9 years.

[2deuce]

This truck was driven in to it's parking spot and not turned over in about 9 years. The fuel tank was drained, new fuel filters installed, and 4 lines bled at the injectors. The remaining 2 lines are stuck and will twist off before I can get them loose. PB blaster has been used for days without any success. The engine turns over fine, but no smoke exits the exhaust. I pulled one injector bled it, but it would not pop off while cranking the engine with it outside the head. The injector I pulled was very clean on the outside including the tip. I'm thinking that I have not bled them enough, but I saw fuel pumping from the inlet connections while they were tightened. Since fuel squirts out the lines at the injectors, I'm thinking the IP is working. There is no fuel moving in the clear injector return lines. The only thing I can think of is bleeding the lines more, but how much is enough after fuel is seen pulsing out? Suggestions are appreciated.

Many Thanks

 

[Scar59]

Keep bleeding it at the injectors and give a small whiff of ether. That should get it to spin up and start up.

 

[Floridianson]

No need to ever bleed the injectors. Remove the shut down cover and check fuel control.
I did not design the Multi Fuel Deuce motor to ever need to bleed at injectors.

 

[Floridianson]

There are two reasons you don't bleed the injector lines.
#1 The fuel system is self bleeding. As long as the in tank pump is working the HH will clear so will all the air out of the filters. The injectors will clear by there self.
#2 The ends of the injector lines have a special end on them the spin. When the line is removed or tighten back down just as it reaches final toque on assembly they spin just a bit so as not to put a twist on the line. A twist on the line will cause the line to fail just at the fitting. Never remove the injection lines in less you need a new line or injector. Always check the spin with your finger's on a used or line you have removed. If the ends do not spin freely try to free it or get a new line.

And yes I did not design the multi fuel system but I did stay at a Holiday Inn express last night.

 

[2deuce]

I removed the shutdown cover and moved the lever forward hit the starter button and she hit on the 1st cylinder and went immediately to the rev limiter. I didn't know that the shutdown lever was spring operated internally and after working it back and forth she would start and idle. Until that lever can adjust itself by throttle position it is either dead or wide open. It was a bit unnerving when it went wide open instantly. Everything we tried works, even the brakes, so now we will start the cleaning. It had sunk into the ground about 8" it had been there so long. Thanks Floridianson your help was what it took. I had wondered about the shutoff control but a friend who stopped by said it couldn't be that, he thought it was an IP failure. Learned something new today.

Thanks again

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

I removed the shutdown cover and moved the lever forward hit the starter button and she hit on the 1st cylinder and went immediately to the rev limiter. I didn't know that the shutdown lever was spring operated internally and after working it back and forth she would start and idle. Until that lever can adjust itself by throttle position it is either dead or wide open. It was a bit unnerving when it went wide open instantly. Everything we tried works, even the brakes, so now we will start the cleaning. It had sunk into the ground about 8" it had been there so long. Thanks Floridianson your help was what it took. I had wondered about the shutoff control but a friend who stopped by said it couldn't be that, he thought it was an IP failure. Learned something new today.

Thanks again

A P P L A U S E ! ! !



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos2MnVxe-c


Carry on.

 

[Floridianson]

Glad you got it running but you failed to check the free play of the fuel control when you removed the shut down cover. That would have stopped the WOT. If it was not stuck but sticky you could have used your finger on the fuel control and shut it down. So we learned that we don't have to bleed the injectors on a Deuce and always when working on the injector lines or injectors twist your tits for a happy ending.

 

[Guyfang]

There is no better teaching tool, then just doing it. You will never, not ever, under any circumstances, forget these lessons.

 

[2deuce]

Correct Floridian, I did not check for free play. I did not know about free play. When I took off the cover, I discovered the fuel shutoff lever was stuck in the off position. The engine stop lever was pulled out 9 years ago and stayed out those 9 years. I just pushed it forward to full open thinking that is where it needs to be. The other complication is the throttle return spring was broken and I had it hooked up only on a coil. When I told my son to attempt the start I also told him to give it full throttle. When it instantly fired it wound up in a BIG hurry. I thought the throttle was stuck to the floor and was attempting to pull it up further because of the return spring but my son had already pulled the peddle up by hand. I was pulling on that throttle rod in vain. Now I was going back to the little lever on the shutoff switch but by now it was already at rev limiter speed and you can imagine the crap blowing everywhere with the fan going at that speed. This truck was buried in leaves and the weather had been dry, what a cloud of debris, too bad we didn't make a video of this. Once I found the switch in the blinding cloud of crap the engine died. We tried a couple more starts but I kept my finger on the shutoff lever so the revs didn't climb so high before I killed it. Then I took a look at how the shutoff operates and while you can't see from the top how it activates the shutoff lever it felt like the cable only pulls the lever off and gets out of it's way when the shutoff handle is pushed in on the dash by the spring attached to the cable at the IP. I then started working the lever(under the cover) back and forth until it would spring back to the center position on it's own. Once that happened the truck started as it should and idled. One thing that was probably helpful about all the cranking and no start, is oil pressure lubed the engine well before the run to the rev limiter happened. I'm wondering if that fuel shutoff is the rev limiter or tied to it and when I clicked that lever wide open before the start, I was effectively giving the engine all the fuel it could get and revs were only limited by the size of the fuel lines. And Guyfang you are absolutely correct!

 

[Guyfang]

If only I could have watched you two!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Something like this happened to me in the middle 70's. The generator would not change speed, (frequency) when the rheostat was turned up or down. The linkage in the roosa master fuel pump broke inside the pump. The gen set went to 85% speed. BUT as it had a throttle cable hooked up to the fuel pump, in addition to an electro/hydraulic actuator speed control system, it never went to over speed because of the cable. Another rocket scientist and I were troubleshooting. We unhooked the cable and the hydraulic actuator, to manually control the fuel pump. We started it up, and away we go!!!!!!!!!! As some point in time, we looked around and found ourselves all alone with this beast, and it wasn't slowing down anytime soon. As we were both bad assed Specialist 5's, and way too cool to move, we both stood there trying to get the thing to shut down. Nothing we could do, helped a bit. No way was I going to run, if my buddy T.P. wasn't going to run. We fooled with it until it felt like our teeth were going to shatter, from the high freq and thundering of the engine. Bolts and nuts started to fall off the set. We looked at one another and I said, or rather screamed, "Lets walk around the back side of this thing before it kills us". So off we strolled. Shortly later. the side of the engine blew out and metal went everyplace. I don't know about T.P., but I needed to change my underwear.

 

[Warthog]

You may want to read this sticky

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?143476-How-to-remove-the-Fuel-Shutoff-Rod-on-the-IP