ultimate fire fighting vehicle

[quickfarms]

Yes that truck is nice and it is probably well under the gvw of the vehicle

 

[John S-B]

In reply to quick farms, our dept. DID NOT SELL the Hmmwv, it was turned back into the GOVERNMENT agency that sells surplus equipment to local governments.
In Ohio I don't need to meet any requirements other than a DOT physical to drive ANY emergency vehicle no matter how big it is. So DOT doesn't mean much.
Grant writing is not something just anyone can do, you need to know a lot about the requirements and how to properly word the grant.
And for someone to think it's a good idea to design a fire vehicle off of information he got from "some guy on the internet", that's just a bad idea.
Even commercially built emergency vehicles can be dangerous if not maintained or driven by untrained drivers. And homebuilt trucks don't come with any manuals. So this is why some of us who KNOW about emergency vehicles are so adamant about not just cobbling something up.

 

[emmado22]

New York is a Home Rule state. New York exempts Fire Fighters from the CDL requirements, but has other mandatory training that must occur. DOT driver requirements does not play a factor in NY.

 

[quickfarms]

Quote "Unless you want to help him with the grant paperwork or have your department donate a truck to his department please stop it your point has been made."

I agree that there is an art to getting grants approved, so why not help them or lead them to the help that they need

Quote "My dept. had an M1025 that was used as a grass truck. It had a home built pressure system in it. (built before I was a member) We decided it was in our best interest to upgrade to a safer and more reliable truck. We turned it in, and some other dept. picked it up and aparently used the old system that was still in it. There is a young man that is now dead because of that. Something blew on the system and he was killed."

This sounds like your department built it and is negelent for turning it in this way.

Quote "No one has talked about the DOT regulations that affect the trucks and the state laws that cover the drivers.

If the trucks are designed to comply with the DOT regulations and the drivers meet the requirements of the state for the class of vehicule they are driving than the liability issue is muted."

The DOT regulations apply to the truck and the state law applies to the driver.

firefighters should be required to get a CDL with tank endorsement

 

[emmado22]

firefighters should be required to get a CDL with tank endorsement

Let me know your plan for implimenting that amongst approximately 75% of the firefighters that are volunteer. Who should pay for the physicals, paperwork, fees, and eveything else that goes along with that? The members, the depts, the districts? Also, what about drivers of aerial apparatus and ambulances?

No CDL training covers EVO that I am aware of. I'll stick to the state standards and follow them, thank you very much.


It's a fact that the types of tanks used in fire engines (L and T shaped) are way better baffled and have much lower CG's than just about any liquid carrying vehicle out there.

 

[quickfarms]

CA already requires it

 

[Atomic]

Maybe you guys could PM axlr8 and get the phone number to his chief. Then when you call the chief and tell him you are a FF in another state and quote the NFPA guidlines to him over the phone. Or give him guidence on the grant thing.

Would that be PRUDENT if you are as you say "just trying to save a life".

You guys are going to great lengths to explain this to the bottom of the food chain (sorry axlr but if you are genuinely concerned, get on the phone and bring it up.

Look, this is the second time in 3 weeks I've read a post that the OP has been focal point of a lot of finger wagging from a computer about FF related vehicles. If it is indeed the the crisis that you make it out to be, then you as a responsible member of a Fire department, in hearing that another FF might be doing things incorectly, need to take a bigger roll in dispersing your knowledge.

Bottom line, I know you will not make that call.

Prove me wrong.

 

[emmado22]

Any chief worth his bugles should be VERY familiar with NFPA. Maybe not ever single little detail , but they should atleast know what general area of NFPA deals with what subjects, and where to get the details. If he's not, I wouldnt go on any fireground he/she is in command of.


Bottom line, myself and other members gave info about why the whole "MV turned cheap fire truck" thing is bad, including documented cases from respected sources and some viable alternative solutions. I would hope that the member who asked the initial question would run the info he got from us up his flagpole and go from there. We gave the guy the info and tools he needs when he asked. It's time for him to do his job, and I hope he does it.

It's really no different than someone asking a MV related mechanical question. Members point them to the correct page in the TM, perhaps provide some advice, maybe some pictures, and other info on doing the repair and the like. It's then up to the person asking the question to pick up the tools, read the page in the TM, and go turn some wrenches.

Ex MV's can do some great things in their "retired" life. Being a piece of fire apparatus is not one of them, especially when it's a "home brew" conversion.

The Dept of Homeland is throwing $ at depts who need it to get modern safe apparatus. All one needs to do is ask for it thru the AFG grants and state their case. If it is a viable argument, DHS will award the grant. It's not that hard.

 

[mdmorganwife]

This is the fire truck I have been wanting

 

[Happyland1410]

I agree that safety is of huge importance in emergency services but it seems that in these discussions some very broad brushes are being used. Funding is very different for different states and even within a given state. I believe most of us are trying to do the very best with what we have. Suggestions, warnings, and personal experiences are always welcome (at least by me). With that said, the reality is that many of the small rural departments get by with much less than fully equipped NFPA compliant vehicles (and other equipment). Maybe an actual example from my all volunteer department will help.

Total annual funding is around $4000 (no I did not leave any zeros off)

Fire district of 36 square miles.

Vehicles:
1995 Ford F350 4x4 with skid unit built in house
Donated by an oil company 100,000+ miles
2003 Chevy 3/4 ton pickup with low volume high pressure skid unit
Donated by local oil company 100,000+ miles
1993 M35A3 tanker
From State Forestry
199x Salsbury 1200 gallon Pumper/Engine
Inoperable bank repo donated if we could get it from 2 states away.
It cost us a couple thousand dollars to get the truck transported
With a lot of our labor and $1000+ in parts we have it in service
1976 Kenworth dump truck chassis
Donated - currently working on to turn into a tanker.

We have 12 volunteer firefighters with a lot of training and experience
Chief has 20+ years experience
We have one EMT and 6 State certified EMR's
We have yearly driver testing and have attended formal EVO training
We run on all Fire, Accident, and Medical calls in our district
We have mutual aid agreements with 14 other volunteer departments
in our county (There is only one paid city department in our county)

Yes, we apply for local, state and federal grants on a regular basis.
We have been able to get good PPE and radios from AFG grants.
We have tried many times for vehicles from the State and AFG with no luck
We have written our own grants and used professional grant writers
(we have had better luck with the grants we have written)
We are actually working on an AFG grant tonight.

The bottom line is that we do the best we can to protect our neighbors with the resources we have. Are there risks? Yes. Is it ideal? No. Will we continue to work on improving? Absolutely! Our only other option would be to sit at home and let fires burn and people die while waiting for "approved" equipment. Nobody should take unnecessary risks but defining "unnecessary" is not always simple nor will it be the same for everyone's situation.

On a lighter note: I found the SS site years ago because of searching while working on our department's old 1967 M35A2 tanker. That was the first fire truck I ever drove and since there were only a couple of us who actually liked driving it I got to drive it a lot. Because of that I'm sure glad our department had an MV or I might not have ever found this great site or met some of the great people on here.

 

[M715VFD405]

HappyLand you just made my day on this subject. That is exactly the point I've been getting at.

 

[quickfarms]

Happy land you just made the point I was trying to get across

Thanks

 

[tamangel]

im looking for plans of either a deuce ff vehicle or a hmmwv truck

If you aren't already aware of the tread on Mil Fire trucks, 30 plus pages of various configurations..here's the link..

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cckw/10371-military-fire-trucks.html

Mike

 

[quickfarms]

the Roscommon Equipment Center a cooperative program between the National Association of State Foresters and the Michigan Department of Natural Resources, develops and tests equipment for wildland fire control. It is located at the Forest Fire Experiment Station, Roscommon, Michigan. Founded in 1972, REC specializes in the conversion of U.S. Military vehicles to wildland fire suppression units. It also focuses on the equipment development needs of state and local wildfire forces

Roscommon Equipment Center

 

[ODdave]

These are from michigan.

 

[John S-B]

HappyLand you just made my day on this subject. That is exactly the point I've been getting at.

HappyLand states his dept. runs off of 4K per year. But then states that they have gotten grants for certain things and donations. They may only recieve 4K per year locally, but they certainly operate on more funding than that. You CAN'T run a dept. effectively on 4K a year. It's time the citizens start supporting their firefighters. We make more than that from just fish fry's, pancake breakfast's, a golf outing and just plain donations. And that's with around 3 thousand residents in our township.

 

[John S-B]

Maybe you guys could PM axlr8 and get the phone number to his chief. Then when you call the chief and tell him you are a FF in another state and quote the NFPA guidlines to him over the phone. Or give him guidence on the grant thing.

Would that be PRUDENT if you are as you say "just trying to save a life".

You guys are going to great lengths to explain this to the bottom of the food chain (sorry axlr but if you are genuinely concerned, get on the phone and bring it up.

Look, this is the second time in 3 weeks I've read a post that the OP has been focal point of a lot of finger wagging from a computer about FF related vehicles. If it is indeed the the crisis that you make it out to be, then you as a responsible member of a Fire department, in hearing that another FF might be doing things incorectly, need to take a bigger roll in dispersing your knowledge.

Bottom line, I know you will not make that call.

Prove me wrong.

What's to stop YOU from making that call? It's your idea. It would probably be a full time job. Ever heard of the Super Sofa Store fire in Charleston? That's a fairly big city. Google it.