ultimate onboard fuel filtration / processing setup

[kentuckycucv]

I have a self cleaning WEBB 525 filter water seperator/heater.... it has a ball valve att he bottom that you crack open and lets water and crap fall out the bottom. it does not need to be replaced like spin on filters. There are no "consumables" moree stuff to buy and replace. It works SOGOOD Raycore bought the company and I think they are going to stop making them. its like a light bulb that doesnt burn out. A filter that doesnt need to be replaced. it goes against the American way of life.

 

[jesusgatos]

Huh. Can't find much in the way of info about that filter online. What's it all about? How does it work? I'll ask the people that I've been working with at Racor what they're planning on doing with that product line next time I talk to them.

 

[PropDr]

Is this what you had in mind for fuel valves? They make a 4 port version also.

Have you ever considered using a Oberg or Cuno type filter as your primary? It's easy to clean on the side of the road if needed and their is nothing hazardous to dispose of. Might be a good way to protect your expensive filters down the line.

 

[jesusgatos]

Thanks for posting PropDr. I haven't source fuel valves yet, but that looks like pretty much what I had in mind, except I'd like to use a lever that can be cable-operated so I can switch fuels from inside the cab on-the-fly.

Hadn't seen the Oberg or Cuno filters, but looked into them after I read your post. Oberg was easy to find, but Cuno has a pretty big product line. Which filters were you thinking of exactly?

 

[PropDr]

Sorry, I didn't mean to be so vague. I was thinking of the Auto-Klean Series filters. They are similar to the WEBB filters that kentuckycucv was talking about. Check out the pdf @ http://www.cuno.com/library/LITHSAKDDS.pdf The cool part is you can clean it while it is online. Just turn the crank on top then open the blow down petcock on the bottom to drain the sludge.

 

[jesusgatos]

Don't apologize! Good info, and very helpful. Thanks a bunch. I'm not sure whether or not I'll need any type of pre-filter, because I the centrifuges in the turbine filter housings are supposed to remove a lot of junk before the fluid hits the filters. Really like the idea of cleanable/re-usable filters though.

 

[Gunnar1071]

Love this thread, covers everything I am looking for.

I was just thinking about something flexible like PEX because I'm a little bit concerned about hanging a bunch of copper tubing down into the tank and leaving it to dangle, unsupported. Seems like it would be prone to getting work-hardened and fail.

I'll give some more thought to insulating the tanks, but not any time soon. Not even sure I'll be keeping these tanks in the long run. Might end up replacing them with something else. Who knows right now...

Air filtration has been discussed here. Disregard the premise, there's some good tech. The short answer is that the best air filter would probably be a water/oil bath (like a bong), but I'm just going to use one of these Sy-Klone pre-filters.

Back in Desert Storm we used pantyhose over the air filter intake, that was a funny convo with the old man,

ME "Hey Pop, I need you to send out 20 sets of pantyhose in the next care package."

OLD MAN "........... Alright........."

 

[coachgeo]

been around veg fuel world and learned a good bit about this topic. First it is often refered to as the HOLY GRAIL. as in it aint been done successfully yet in a drive and filter as you go fashion. The variables are wide. One, all the filters your talking about are for seperating water out of liquids that range somewhre in viscocity of gasoline and diesel. Some dont do shiat with anything thicker. Majority for that matter IF ANY.

The RCI is a good start. You will have to heat thicker oils to bring their viscocity down before it will do anything. Talk to RCI about which one.. fluid per minute flow is important for it to work since it is a bash plate, upflow type system. NO FILTER involved. They do work.

IMHO with OIL type fuels with higer viscosity than diesel use a oil filter.... what us WVO guys use more so now is a centrifuge like filter that also uses inject-mist / evaporation in essence. The product is actually sold as an onboard engine lube filter for big rigs. Either an OC10 or OC20. I would guess a 20. You will need a pump with a motor to dirive the pump. Since it also uses evaporation you have to have a way for the evapration-mist to escape with out recollecting in the fuel. Yetttt... you got to keep contaminants from outside getting into the fuel thru the evaporation system. Damed if you do... damed if you dont like thing.

Suggest you search this topic on WVO boards. Burnveg.com is a good one.

 

[Ord22]

the filter you have with the glass bowl is typical of the big rigs on the road. its a good filter.

 

[tm america]

I really like the idea of having better ways to filter the different fuels...I see one problems with just dumping the different fuels in the tank then filtering it from there..At some point the amount of sediment in the tank will choke off the fuel supply line at the bottom of the tank.i think having a pick up pump and then your killer filtering system before it enters the tanks would be your best bet.. then you wouldnt have to worry about draining and cleaning the bottoms of the tanks every so often..Most waste oil has alot of metal and dirt in it..Even the cleanest oil will leave a small amount of sediment this could build up rather quickly...just something else you might want to consider

 

[UNIMOG-GUY]

What if you used a unit like this to pre-filter?

Welcome to Golden Fuel Systems! - PRODUCTS: Pumps

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt187bVVR4U&feature=player_embedded[/media]

 

[jesusgatos]

Looks like they're using a smaller version of the same Racor Turbine filters that I'm using? Great filters, but:

Although the Turbine 1000 units are specifically designed to separate water from Diesel, Racor told me that I would need an additional water filter to separate the water from used motor oil, ATF, hydraulic fluid, and WVO. They recommended one of these filters in one of these filter housings. Only caveat is that this filter is not compatible with gasoline, so I'd have to make a bypass line that I would switch over to whenever I put gasoline through the tanks.

...and so far, this is all I'm planning on using as a pre-filter (as I fill the tank):

Good point about the pre-filter. I was thinking that maybe I could use something like this funnel.

 

[skark_burmer]

When I'm feeding the engine from the diesel tank, I'll want to return the fuel to the diesel tank - and when I'm feeding the engine from the slut tank, I'll want to return the fuel to the slut tank. But when I'm purging the system (running diesel from the diesel tank through the slut tank's lines and filters), I'll want to return that fuel to the slut tank.

Im a little late to the party but i'll offer some thoughts.
You dont need to differ between the supply/return of the Diesel tank and "other" tank. The small amount of mystery fuel wont be enough to cause issue in the clean diesel tank. The idea being you are not going to switch over all that often and the small amount contained in the lines is negligible in a 20+ gallon fuel tank. Also it plays well with the reasoning to have your switch valving closer to your injector pump so purge time is less.

for coolant heaters i like the plate style. You can get them cheaper if you look at HVAC sites. Google "plate heat exchanger" and you'll see what im talkin about.
you'd be amazed how many BTU's these things will convert.
for all your other leftover coolant heat you can get imersion tubes to fit inside the fuel tanks. If you can get your oil to 130* then you are golden. Depending on what you are dealing with you might have to modify your fuel tank, but some solutions are small and not very intrusive.


A homemade solution i have for "Worst case cold issues" is a chainsaw with the bar removed and an alternator permanently attached. Its small, compact and will offer 200 amps no matter what within a few pulls. Mine is a 12v unit i got out of the local pick and pull for $5 from a wrecked ambulance but im sure you could get a 24v unit if you look hard enough. Of course you need 2stroke fuel to run it, but there are also 4stroke options too...

Just a few ideas...

 

[jesusgatos]

I follow you, but I'm going to plumb the fuel lines so that I can filter fuel in a closed-loop too (to keep the fuel in both tanks clean/dry when the vehicle is parked for extended periods of time), so I do want to be able to direct the return line to either tank. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on heating, and that chainsaw-powered alternator sounds rad! I'm going to have multiple power sources onboard, including a small generator onboard (probably something like one or two Honda EU200i units), which should serve the same purpose.

 

[coachgeo]

Lets just say, for those on the ground using this stuff daily esp. those with way more education in chemistry than I... don't hold Golden Fuels claims in too high of a regard.

Now I might backtrack here some though. This is a multi fuel engine.... that may be enough of a different animal compared to a diesel that some water in the fuel is ok. Water seperation filter made for diesel in an alternative fuled diesel engine; including the type you showed, can NOT effecively enough get out water enough for long engine life but... your not dealing with a diesel engine.

Does a multi fuel engine like yours ever get into a situation where cavitation of water molecules inside fuel can occur? You see in a high compression diesel engine the micro implosion of cavitation can over time put holes thru cylinder Sleeves and/or pistons and cause sever pitting etc inside injection pumps which shortens their life HUGELY. Not sure if an enviroment exist for that to happen in a mulit fuel engine.

Something you might try to read up on. You will have to DIG to find out information about multifuel engines, cavitation and compare it to diesels. Odds are you will have to interprelate the answer yourself. I doubt there will be a single source that will answer this question plainly.

 

[jesusgatos]

Well RACOR doesn't even recommend the filters that it looks like those guys are using for this type of application, so yeah, I'd guess their kit isn't going to give the best results. The link to the water-seperating filter that I'm going to be using in addition to the turbine filters however, was designed specifically to separate water from the type of fluids that we're talking about. Only thing I'm not thrilled about is that it uses a disposable filter cartridge. Ideally, would prefer to build a system that can be serviced without having to replace filters.