Using Wrecker Rear Winch Without Soldier B

[nf6x]

Yesterday, my M936A1 wrecker got its first real workout. Another collector is buying my incomplete M1022 shelter mobilizer dolly carcasses to harvest parts for some interesting projects that he has in the works. They're sitting in an inconvenient spot in my yard, and they're not complete enough to flat-tow properly, so we're starting to move them into position for loading by doing some off-road lifted tows on my rural property. I stuck a few pictures of the first stage of the operation on my web page in case anybody cares:

http://www.nf6x.net/2012/12/looks-like-my-m936a1-works/​

We used the rear winch at one point to drag a dolly set into position to hitch it up to the wrecker. It works great, but using it was a 3-man job. The buyer and his friend hauled on the cable to keep it under tension while I operated the winch controls to spool it out. Sometimes, even with the two of them pulling, the cable started to loosen on the drum and I had to let go of the controls to help pull the cable out. The rear winches on these beasts don't have a free-wheel mode to manually pull the cable out, and it's necessary to pull on the cable pretty hard to get it to pass over the level wind rather than bunching up around the spool. At least the controls can be operated from the ground, unlike the rear winch on my older M543A2.

I usually work by myself on my property, so this is the first time I've tried to use the rear winch since it was the first time I had both a use for it and some extra hands to help out.

Have any of y'all come up with any tricks to allow a single operator to use that rear winch without a Soldier-B or two?

BTW, I think that my buyer has just joined Steel Soldiers, but I don't know his username here yet.

Finally, here's a picture of the wrecker in use because I know y'all like that sort of thing. There are a few more at my link above.

 

[gimpyrobb]

It almost looks like a scale model in that pic!

 

[nf6x]

I like your new avatar, Gimpy.

 

[Danger Ranger]

Thats your yard?!? I guess that is pretty inconvenient...

Good work

 

[73m819]

Your right, that 3/4" cable gets heavy FAST, Swiss (m62 owner) and I had kicked around the idea of a free wheeling electric pilot winch that could be pulled out to a snatch block then back to the rear of the wrecker, as the main winch is let out, the pilot winch would keep the main winch cable tight. in your case a hyd. free wheeling winch would work.

To use pilot winch set up, you would mark the pilot cable at the snatch block, when that mark gets to the pilot winch, the MAIN winch cable is AT the snatch block, then either RERIG and pull the main cable back for a two part pull or do a slngle line pull and rap up the pilot line cable. (this rerigging and pulling can be done for as many parts pull as needed because multi part cable pulling is worse the straight one or two part cable pulling).

I have seen quite a few BIG mvs as well as BIG civy units that had BIG winches set up with PILOT winches this way, doing this as a one man operation would take a LOT of exter movement but you will be doing the movement of TWO or THREE crew members, the PILOT winch set up is the ONLY way for a REAR WINCH ONE MAN OPERATION, in fact WITH TWO men pulling the 300' of the 3/4" becomes a real chore long before the 200' mark.

 

[nf6x]

Interesting idea, Ron! Heck, we had two men pulling it from only 10-15 feet away, and I still needed to help give the rope a tug every now and then. We were just flexing the rope over the level-wind and pulling it through the disengaged tensioner, and not even dragging a lot of rope weight. Do you have a rough idea of cable size and winch strength that would be right for the pilot winch? A hydraulic winch makes great sense because there's already hydraulic pressure available back there, and I might even put on something like an adjustable bypass pressure regulator to make the pilot winch slip when the 3/4" rope is tight.

Yes, those pictures are of my yard. It's 5 acres, and only an acre or two is fairly flat. We had to tow the dolly through the rough part to get around to the other side of the house and workshop. The dollies were put in place with a bulldozer to get them out of the way before my home construction, then I went and built a house in the way of them. The shorter path to the front is blocked by my 45' antenna mast (military surplus, of course) and its guy ropes, so we dragged the dolly around the long way. I have about 40' of elevation variation on my property. The terrain used to be even worse. It was terraced for the orchard that used to be there, making it very rough going across the terracing. I've been gradually smoothing it out a little bit each time I do weed abatement with my Bobcat.

I was clenching a bit at times because I don't have a lot of rough-terrain driving experience in the bigger trucks, and sitting up high in the 5-tons makes them feel a lot more prone to tipping than they really are. That beast sure pulled the dolly through my valley without any trouble! We have to move a couple more dolly carcasses, as well as an M35A2C that doesn't want to start.

 

[M35A2-AZ]

When I tested my winch on the truck I had my wife run the winch and I tried to pull the cable out,
did not get much out before I did not want to do it any more.
You are right it is a 3 or 4 man job!!

 

[nf6x]

I have an industrial grade backup camera system that I bought for my M923. Now I'm thinking of using it on the wrecker instead, and locating it where it'll be able to see the pintle if I can find a good spot where it won't get wrecked by the winch cable or whatever. If there's not a good spot where it can both see the pintle and work as a good general backup camera, then the monitor has multiple inputs so I could get a second camera. Heck, maybe even a third camera looking down at front to see the last bit of front winch cable reeling in from the driver's seat.

I had been thinking about selling the wrecker when some unexpected expenses came up, but now I'm thinking I want to keep that beast and sell the cargo truck if I end up needing the extra cash. My M923 is cleaner than the wrecker, but the wrecker sure is versatile. A few gimmicks to make it easier to operate without Soldier B will make it one heck of an amazing truck!

 

[topo]

I use one of these winches on a M52a2 to pull vehicles on to a trailer even with soldier B it's tough to keep the cable tight enough to make lay flat on the winch when it's time to pull . The winch drum can make a real mess when backing off and you don't have enough pull on the cable . I could use a electric winch and a snatch block to just pull the cable to the end of the trailer as long as I stay in the cab and run both winches . Pull on one back off on the other something gets tight STOP.

 

[zebedee]

I have an industrial grade backup camera system.... Now I'm thinking of using it on the wrecker instead, and locating it where it'll be able to see the pintle if I can find a good spot where it won't get wrecked by the winch cable or whatever. ........ see the pintle and work as a good general backup camera.

I think a good place subject to the angle that the camera can see, would be under the boom about 1 - 2 feet from the mast head, pointing at 45 deg down and back. Hopefully you'd see the pintle and the winch line.....

........A few gimmicks to make it easier to operate without Soldier B will make it one heck of an amazing truck!

See also wrecker bed mod's thread. I'm currently working on a design (theory only) for a civi underlift.

BTT (Back to topic!)......
I wonder what size cable would work for pulling the rear drag 3/4" cable out? 'cause 600ft of any dia cable will take up some space. (To get a 300 straight pull on the 3/4) All modern ARV's have the extra winch since they have cables 1" and bigger!! Plus having a load of guys pulling out a cable compromises the 'A' part of ARV!

 

[zebedee]

Of course many will comment: Using a wrecker on your own - not recommended.

With that said, carry spare cable. Engage winch from cab with PTO lever - having already set winch to pay out at the rear winch controls. This way you can drive forward, paying out cable.
Use snatch block and ground anchors for the off set or angled 'drive away' and having enough room will help. Or unspool at home base and carry rear cable coiled up on deck so that you don't have to fight with level wind etc.
Also carry cribbing so that you can drive over cable without touching it if your backing skills won't keep you straddling the payed out cable......

OK - so 'dround' anchors is a typo

 

[nf6x]

I considered the boom as a backup camera mounting point, but quickly changed my mind when I considered cabling it without benefit of the slip rings. Now, if it was a wireless camera, then I could power it from the warning light circuit (which passes through the slip ring assembly), but it's a wired camera.

Instead of a conventional winch with 600' of cable on its spool, what about a capstan winch located within reach of the rear winch controls? The rope could be stored in a tool compartment, and it could be something lighter like synthetic rope.

 

[zebedee]

I considered the boom as a backup camera mounting point, but quickly changed my mind when I considered cabling it without benefit of the slip rings. Now, if it was a wireless camera, then I could power it from the warning light circuit (which passes through the slip ring assembly), but it's a wired camera.

Well you don't need the camera when operating the crane, so store it in the front locker, have a mag mount and long enough cable and put it there when needed, running the chord along the boom top or leave it there 'till you need to crane - then stow in locker.

Instead of a conventional winch with 600' of cable on its spool, what about a capstan winch located within reach of the rear winch controls? The rope could be stored in a tool compartment, and it could be something lighter like synthetic rope.

Sure - many "line tucks" use side capstains for running phone, power lines etc. Still need 600 ft of something though. Trouble... sorry, one point about capstains is you have to throw all the used line/cable whatever all over the ground by your feet vs spooled nicely away on a drum. They do have infinite control and feel though - work real nice. You can also "stand off" in the safety zone!

Happy ponderings........

 

[73m819]

The problem with the capstains is that it is a 100% hands on, 100% of the time job that the rear winch is spooling out (work great for a TWO man crew), the powered pilot winch with a on/off switch or hyd. powered (with hyd. power, a flow control valve can be installed in the hyd. circuit for spooling speed control)( a electric powered hyd. winch would be the ticket for the wreckers other then the 936),. What ever methord of rear winch cable out pull is used, WATCHING rear winch spooling is a 100% of the time job, so controling the rear winch cable UNspoolingl pull HAS TO BE AT THE REAR WINCH CONTROLS.

 

[73m819]

Any decent pilot winch CAN be REBUILT (stretched) to handle the needed 600' of 3/8" cable ( 1/4" or 5/16" HIGH STRENGTH LIFT cable most likly will work), The idel place to mount the pilot winch would be on top of the rear fairlead top plate, this way BOTH winches can be watched at the same time.

 

[nf6x]

I think that the pilot winch should also have a nice roller fairlead, in case the main rear winch cable needs to be pulled out at some angle other than directly behind the truck.

 

[73m819]

There is a way around the 600' cable storage on a "standard" winch, there is a type of winch that has a HIGH capiticy spool but is a fairly small unit, this unit is made to pull a small clean out pipe pig or pulling electial cable though a newly laid street conduit, it has a fairly large spool driven by a electric or hyd. motor that is BEHIND the spool and drives by a chain drive, some have a fold down spool end oppesate the drive end, this is so the spooled rope or cable could be sucured and removed from the spool, some of these units have a DECLUTCH, so that the drive can be disengaged from the spool so the rope or cable can be pulled off the spool, these spooling winches are not to designed to pull a lot of weight, in this case we would not be pulling a lot of weight, just 300' of 3/4" cable.

Sorry about the spelling, have not upgraded yet so spell check works

 

[Csm Davis]

Haha Ron made a funny " not a lot of weight, just 300ft of 3/4 cable."

 

[Csm Davis]

Hey bud just picking on you, but thanks for calling me light, it weighs about the same as me 3-350lbs

 

[Artisan]

Lemme know when you need a Soldier B Mark!
I am dieing to learn AND if you could help me ocassionally
w/ a recovery / load out from Barstow all will be good !