video of a deuce with air brakes

[fleetmech]

Looking around on youtube today and I happed to come across a video of an old, and admittedly very modified duece still working in what I think is Vietnam. (could be wrong, im no expert in Asian languages!) The highlight of the video for me was a decent look under the truck showing what looked like the original-ish Rockwell axles set up with S cam air brakes front and rear. The guy taking the video seems to talk about them for quite a while, unfortunately I dont speak the language...

Assuming theres no obscure forum rule about linking to a video that isnt mine, I'll post it here for us to have a look. Maybe someone here speaks the language, or knows someone who can? It could be a hacked/ no other options or excessively labor intensive job, or perhaps someone out there has found the right combination of parts to make it work. Im guessing airpack rebuild kits aren't common elsewhere in the wide world.

 

[davidb56]

I wonder why Boyce or someone who builds and sells MV's hasn't done something about the weakest link in the whole truck.....air over hyd.

 

[Recovry4x4]

There were air brake kits for deuces way back. Memphis I think sold them albeit costly. With that said, the deuce in the video is a 5 ton.

 

[NY Tom]

5 ton came with power steering or did they add that in?

 

[Elk1111]

The truck is awesome but you have to give that driver a lot of credit. The job he’s doing on that road just using a dump truck is amazing. You can tell he’s been driving that 5 ton for quite a while. Possibly most of his life.

 

[Floridianson]

It is even part International Harvester with the badge on the hood.

 

[HDN]

5 ton came with power steering or did they add that in?

All the 5-tons from the M39 onward have power steering stock, but also had an air-assisted hydraulic brake system like the M44 deuces. It wasn't until the M939 5-tons that full air brakes came stock.

That truck looks like an M51 5-ton dump with an air brakes mod. It makes me wonder if it would be easier to do an air brakes mod or to do a dual-circuit mod.

Edited for clarity.

 

[fleetmech]

All the 5-tons from the M39 onward have power steering stock and an air-assisted hydraulic brake system like the M44 deuces. It wasn't until the M939 5-tons that full air brakes came stock.

That truck looks like an M51 5-ton dump with an air brakes mod. It makes me wonder if it would be easier to do an air brakes mod or to do a dual-circuit mod.

Thats why its so interesting to me. If there is a spider, backing plate, or some collection of parts that can be adapted to the Rockwell within acceptable limits, then it should be a consideration for all of us. Airpacks are rare, other forms of boosting require a lot of fab work, the correct dual masters are getting scarce and its a fair bit of plumbing no matter how you do it.

The stock deuce foundation brakes themselves are sturdy and simple, its just the actuation that stinks.

 

[HDN]

I was in contact with a guy who can 3D print metal automotive parts, including brake components. He actually specializes in antique car restoration. Perhaps if there's enough interest here we should engage him?

 

[Elk1111]

I’m not sure if it would fit or not but I wonder if anybody has tried taking the axles and brake system parts from a 939 Series and fabing them up to fit a deuce? Can you imagine the braking ability???

 

[davidb56]

Probably the best option we have is to do away with the whole airpack system and go straight hydraulic power brake system from a truck like a F750 ? or something like that.

 

[HDN]

Probably the best option we have is to do away with the whole airpack system and go straight hydraulic power brake system from a truck like a F750 ? or something like that.

I'm not familiar with how powered hydraulic brakes work. Do they rely on a hydraulic pump, like the power steering pump?

 

[davidb56]

I'm not familiar with how powered hydraulic brakes work. Do they rely on a hydraulic pump, like the power steering pump?

on a diesel, yes or a vacuum pump like the older Ford F250's had. The newer ones had the power steering pump running both the steering and brake booster.

 

[DavidWymore]

Last summer I saw a fire fighting deuce in CO with air brakes. I'll have to find the pics.

 

[dmetalmiki]

It has always puzzled me why these trucks had such a system.
A straight air system is far superior.

 

[frank8003]

It has always puzzled me why these trucks had such a system.
A straight air system is far superior.

Guberrmint contracts given out for the big bucks.
Anyhow, it is amazing the trucks we got now did survive.
Most vehicles where written off, as expended, when they were loaded onto the ship.
I not find my old truck photos right now so this will do, You can get the idea.
I was told they put a brick on the fuel pedal and drove them into the ditch, 10 to 50
at a time, bulldozed earth atop them.
Expended. So enjoy what is left and remember what today is.

 

[HDN]

Were full air brakes a thing when these trucks were designed? Maybe the military guys didn't trust the technology and wanted to stick with powered hydraulics. The CCKW before it had vacuum-assisted hydraulic brakes.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Were air brakes submersible in the 50s?

 

[fleetmech]

Air brakes had been in use on railroads since the 18...50s' I think, and were greatly improved by Westinghouse in the 1870's or so. They were already well established in the trucking industry by the early 50s, and definitely should have been on the table for the design of any truck this size. The system we have though, was not totally out of left field for the time. I have seen old (think Wabco old) equipment with similar systems. The brand name commonly seen with those systems is Midland.

As for submersion, I can't see any issues that couldn't be resolved easily. The base air system would be unchanged, snorkeling off the intake, and the only alterations would be: a treadle valve(brake pedal and master control valve), two or maybe three quick release valves, and the brake chambers themselves. I have never run air brakes under water myself, but I should think they would work ok. After all, outback truckers and emergency vehicles the world over get run in some pretty wet conditions with no apparent ill effects. But, there could be some places that you wouldn't want water in. Adding a few gaskets and NPT bungs to QR valves and maxi chambers for a set of fording kit pipes would be kiddy engineering compared to the complexity of the airpack alone... at least thats my opinion.

Its a stretch, but I can almost see a bigger concern with the arctic use these trucks were supposedly able to handle. In the age before air dryers, moisture in the lines could be a major concern.

I can't put a lot of stock in any of the 'cons' of air brakes though, at least from the military's perspective, since the trucks as they actually exist still need adequate prep and after care for submerged and arctic use, so a slight difference in what type of maintenance shouldn't matter.

 

[NY Tom]

Cost must have been the driver.

The 5 ton from the same period had air brakes right? They must have decided the smaller truck did not need the braking system of the larger which likely cost more to install. This system is simple and has fewer components perhaps.