Water/Methanol injection

[Maui6x6]

Has anyone installed a water/methanol injection system on an 8.3 Cummins on an A2? I contacted Snow Performance and they said they have a universal system that would work great for me. They said it would give about an extra 60 HP and help keep egt's down.

 

[prholley]

Would be interested in hearing more about this

 

[patracy]

I never got around to running water/meth on the 5.9's I had over the years. But it's proven to work in some capacity. That said, in a "stock" setup, you'll not see enough of a gain to justify the cost/expenses of installing/running it. It's really more of a stop gap used in performance settings. Your EGTs aren't (well shouldn't be) high enough to need this. Unless you start playing with the pump, adding injectors, and changing turbos. You're not going to have the gains they're claiming.

Do you have a EGT gauge in your truck already?

 

[74M35A2]

I don't think it will necessarily add 60hp. Rather it will allow you to increase your fuel rate approx 60hp worth and still keep your EGT's down to a safe level, as long as the fluid doesn't run out and the pump keeps working. It typically uses conventional blue -20 rated washer fluid to do so.

 

[Maui6x6]

I don't have an egt gauge, but I am assuming with everything being stock that it is not running hot. I explained to Snow Performance what I wanted to do and the truck that it would be installed on. They said I would probably see about 60 HP gain without any other modifications. They also said I should see about 1 or 2 mpg increase. I tend to believe these guys, Snow Performance is the go to people for water/meth. They also said I would go through about 1 gallon of "juice" every 150-200 miles. Their MPG-MAX system sells for $900 and it does come with a egt gauge.

 

[98G]

And when it fails, it fails "on" and trickles water and fills up the rear cylinder. Then when you go to start it it destroys your engine.

I've seen this more than once. Not worth the risk IMO.

 

[Maui6x6]

Hey Mark,

Yeah, I've heard that story before. He wired it up outside of our recommendations. So, normally you put the arm switch inline with the 12v key on. So you can't arm the system unless the engine is running. In the case your speaking of he bypassed the power and wired the arm swicth directly to the pump.


If you follow the guidelines and wiring instructions, there's no way that can happen.


Hope this helps,


Nathan


[FONT=georgia, serif]Nathan Ragsdale
[FONT=georgia, serif]Snow Performance, Inc.

I thought you may have a real concern, so I decided to get the definitive answer and this text above is what Snow Performance had to say. Sounds like it was the nut behind the wheel that wired it wrong. I think we can all rest easy. These systems are used by over the road truck drivers consistently. Also, a great side benefit is that they clean your engine of carbon deposits and soot.
My truck is being converted to a vehicle to haul tourists and I think I am going to implement water/meth into the build. It doesn't seem like anyone is chiming in with water/meth experience on military trucks. I will let you all know how it turns out. I like being the guinea pig![/FONT]



[/FONT]

 

[74M35A2]

Do it. Reach back with a report. Need EGT data with and without spray.

 

[patracy]

I don't have an egt gauge, but I am assuming with everything being stock that it is not running hot. I explained to Snow Performance what I wanted to do and the truck that it would be installed on. They said I would probably see about 60 HP gain without any other modifications. They also said I should see about 1 or 2 mpg increase. I tend to believe these guys, Snow Performance is the go to people for water/meth. They also said I would go through about 1 gallon of "juice" every 150-200 miles. Their MPG-MAX system sells for $900 and it does come with a egt gauge.

Could I interest you in a bridge I have for sale as well?

Sorry, but I had to. While water/meth WILL increase power, there's no way you'll net 60hp from it. You can increase fueling and get to the 60hp that way. But in all honesty with how detuned MV engines are, I'd suspect you could increase 60hp worth of fueling without even needing the water/meth. (You could get that much from a 5.9 with stock injector/turbo, and still be under 1300F)

 

[Maui6x6]

If that bridge goes from California to Hawaii, I may be interested!
I know it sounds too good to be true, but I might as well try it to see. Over the road truck drivers don't typically turn up their engines because they are looking for MPG's, not so much HP. I know of a lot of those drivers using water/meth with good results in MPG. That really is what I am looking for as well. If I get more HP, then that's just a bonus.

 

[Shark Bait]

Im watching this as well. The theory with the way it works stands to show some type of increase, even if not 60hp, you should feel something.

Dave

 

[Maui6x6]

Im watching this as well. The theory with the way it works stands to show some type of increase, even if not 60hp, you should feel something.

Dave

I'm not looking to drag race, I'm really just wanting a slight bump in mpg and maybe a little extra hp would be nice. I'll post what happens.

 

[98G]

Incorrect wiring is one failure modality.

Here's another - http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/0...rformance-bent-rod.html?nocache=1455146625375. First hand experience, not me.

Not my monkey, not my circus. I have no stake in this.

If you decide to run it, please obtain quantifiable baseline numbers before any modifications, and then change only one variable at a time, and then take new measurements. This will provide real performance data.

 

[74M35A2]

I don't understand how it can increase MPG. I only see it being able to decrease EGT.

 

[Maui6x6]

Incorrect wiring is one failure modality.

Here's another - http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/0...rformance-bent-rod.html?nocache=1455146625375. First hand experience, not me.

Not my monkey, not my circus. I have no stake in this.

If you decide to run it, please obtain quantifiable baseline numbers before any modifications, and then change only one variable at a time, and then take new measurements. This will provide real performance data.

I dug a little deeper into this guy from Texas with the problem. I found out he had it wired hot so it didn't turn off with the ignition switch. He forgot to turn it off manually and over the weekend, it filled it up. This is definitely not Snow's fault, you are never supposed to wire it that way.
If I do decide to run this system, I plan on installing the tank lower than the engine to eliminate a problem from a faulty solenoid. I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "quantifiable baseline numbers". I'm not going to put my 6x6 on a chassis dyno if that's what you mean. All I can do is check MPG's before and after. HP will technically be "seat of my pants".

 

[Shark Bait]

I don't understand how it can increase MPG. I only see it being able to decrease EGT.

From my understanding, the methanol combustion temperature is higher than the diesel fuel, thus allowing to get the full btu's out of the diesel along with the energy of the igniting methanol then turning the H2O in the mix to steam having the energy from the 3 to drive the piston on the powerstroke. Again, that is just my understanding. If I am incorrect please chime in.
I don't recall on the temps other than the H2O cooling it?
Dave

 

[74M35A2]

That seems far fetched, I don't believe it. Today's class 8 trucking owners would do anything to increase mileage even 1%. A system like this would be factory supplied as stock on every Kenworth, Peterbuilt, Freightliner, Volvo, and International on the road. For EGT cooling, it may have some effect. If you are EGT limited on fuel rate, and want even more, a system like this would allow you to do it. I'd set it up to relay off a digital EGT with an external output to automatically spray at any EGT over 1000F. This will be a consumable like fuel, but a much smaller tank, so you'll have to monitor the level constantly.

 

[Maui6x6]

There is an endless list of aftermarket stuff that improve you vehicle in one way or another. OEM chooses not to implement them for one reason or another, but that doesn't mean they don't work. Most of the time it's because of cost basis or legal issues.
All water/meth systems today come with different ways to trigger them. They can be triggered off EGT, RPM, WOT, or a combination of those. So each system can be tailored to how you want to to work for you.

 

[WillWagner]

You have an old military truck, why do you care about mpg? If you want to use it commercially and want mpg, get a newer truck with a/c, radio, comfortable interior.

 

[Maui6x6]

You have an old military truck, why do you care about mpg? If you want to use it commercially and want mpg, get a newer truck with a/c, radio, comfortable interior.

Mpg's are very important when running this truck everyday as a tour vehicle. The reason I chose this truck is simple...everyone loves big military trucks, especially riding on one. Typical tour buses are closed in, stuffy, and impersonal. My truck will be open air, awesome, and can run over those buses! I plan on having the cab up front with a/c, stereo, and air ride seat.
If I can even improve my mileage by 1 mpg, it is worth it.