Water/steam from crankcase vent. Small amount of antifreeze in oil.

[M37M35]

Well, if it's not one problem, it's another...

2-3 months ago I noticed the engine oil level in my deuce rising. I figured it was diesel getting into the oil, as that's a fairly common issue, although the oil didn't seem to smell of diesel. The oil looked normal though a little thin, was just slightly high, and the oil pressure was fine. So I was still using the truck occasionally, knowing I'd have to replace the booster pump and/or HH o-rings soon. I got those changed okay, see post here. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...t-else-should-I-look-at-while-I-m-fixing-this

The last time I used the truck before changing the seals, I noticed what looked to be water dripping from the crankcase vent hose. It hadn't done that before, so that worried me. I shut the truck off and started checking things... The oil was black and didn't show any signs of water/antifreeze contamination. The radiator was low, and took two gallons to fill it into the neck. That worried me even more, so I loosened the drain plug on the deep part of the oil pan to see what came out... Nothing but black oil. Not even a drop of antifreeze.
Then a friend noticed a pinhole leak in the radiator with antifreeze slowly dripping down. That was a relief because I figured that's where the antifreeze went, and the clear condensate from the vent hose must be from the diesel getting cooked out of the oil.

Fast-forward to a couple days ago... I needed use the boom to lift something, so I finished that and again noticed the clear stuff and more vapor than is normal coming from the vent hose. I put a can under the hose to collect it, and after about 30 minutes of idling the can had about 1/2 cup of what appears to be water. And I'm guessing another cup or two came out as steam. It's hard to judge. I don't think there's any more blow-by than normal, but I think the steam with the cooler weather makes it more pronounced. I opened the oil fill cap on the front valve cover and there's a watery sludgey mess inside. It's not a terrible mess, but still a mess.
I haven't fixed the leak in the radiator yet, but I topped it off to check for bubbles. It took a gallon and a half to fill it into the neck, and I couldn't see any bubbles. I had my dad cover the vent hose with a rag to increase the pressure in the crankcase, and still no bubbles that I could tell. I haven't changed the oil yet because I'm waiting on spin-on oil filter adapters. It's about 3-5 quarts high, but looks normal and doesn't show any signs of water/antifreeze contamination.
After letting it set for two days, I removed the oil drain plug on the deep sump and drained out about a pint of oil into a glass jar. Again, the oil looks fine and not even a drop of water/antifreeze. I did the same with the shallow sump, but about 1/4-1/2 cup of antifreeze came out before the oil. The oil behind it looks fine.

I was hoping the water/steam was somehow lots of condensation in the crankcase since I haven't driven it much recently, but with the little bit of antifreeze in the pan, it now looks to be much more serious than that...

I found two other posts about the water/steam coming from the vent tube, and both ended with replacing the engine...
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...sation-and-milkshake-in-my-trucks-valve-cover

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?60173-slobber-tube
A month later...
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?61664-Guess-I-m-looking-at-head-gaskets


I'm pretty bummed right now, but I guess I said all that to ask this... Where do I go from here?
Thanks guys.

 

[frank8003]

"3-5 quarts high"
That is like 20% too high


"Where do I go from here?"

Warm it up then drain ALL the drainable fluids from the crankcase drains.
Change the filters and pour 4 gallons new lube oil in and then run it and watch for symptoms.

 

[rustystud]

You have either 1) bad head gaskets or, 2) a cracked head. Either way the heads need to come off.

 

[M37M35]

You have either 1) bad head gaskets or, 2) a cracked head. Either way the heads need to come off.

...Or 3) A cracked block.

That's what I was afraid of... I came to the same conclusion, but was hoping I had overlooked something. From what I've read, the only other place oil and antifreeze can mix is the oil cooler, but that that usually results in oil in the antifreeze-not antifreeze in the oil...


I know the oil and filters need to be changed, but I don't see the sense in doing it before I fix the problem because it will just get contaminated again...

 

[fsearls92]

If the oil isn't milky though, I doubt that it's water contamination. Test the oil by taking a sheet of copy paper and pull the dipstick and let it drip a drop or two on the paper and look for a rainbow like color around the drip mark to determine if it's fuel in the oil. Or pull a sample and send it to a lab that will test it and tell you what is actually in the oil. Start with the simple stuff before diving deep.

 

[Jbulach]

If the oil isn't milky though, I doubt that it's water contamination....

He drained antifreeze out of his oil pan

 

[fsearls92]

Well shoot, I missed that last part. All I read to was that he drained a pint of oil and it looked fine. Disregard my prior post.

 

[saddamsnightmare]

December 6th, 2016.


I agree with Rustystud above, likely its either a failed head gasket (or both head gaskets), or a cracked or warped head. I'd pull the head and have it checked at a machine shop for cracks and warps, if it's warped, that can be machined out...if it's cracked, time to locate a good head. If its only the head gaskets, all its going to set you back are new gaskets and new head bolts (and you will need new headbolts if the head has been planed).

Do not reuse headbolts, bad mojo, as they have already been stretched......Buy quality new headbolts.

 

[rustystud]

December 6th, 2016.


I agree with Rustystud above, likely its either a failed head gasket (or both head gaskets), or a cracked or warped head. I'd pull the head and have it checked at a machine shop for cracks and warps, if it's warped, that can be machined out...if it's cracked, time to locate a good head. If its only the head gaskets, all its going to set you back are new gaskets and new head bolts (and you will need new headbolts if the head has been planed).

Do not reuse headbolts, bad mojo, as they have already been stretched......Buy quality new headbolts.

Totally agree ! Time to spend the money and get those really good "ARP" head studs.

 

[rosco]

Totally agree ! Time to spend the money and get those really good "ARP" head studs.

Could you be a little more explicit on the "head studs". What are the "ARP" studs? And where do you get them? Thank you.

 

[rustystud]

Could you be a little more explicit on the "head studs". What are the "ARP" studs? And where do you get them? Thank you.

Here. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?132535-Old-style-head-gaskets/page3
Surprised you forgot this as you posted there after I posted my findings.

 

[skinnyR1]

I agree with what was stated above. Cracked block or head.

I went through something similar. The truck was consuming antifreeze, and there was very little in the oil. It was all vaporizing out of the breather, and the valve covers were covered in milkshake/sludge. This was after a head gasket swap. Ran fine all along, but was drinking antifreeze.

I ended up just having a new motor put in. Troubleshooting can end up being just as costly/timely.

 

[M37M35]

If the oil isn't milky though, I doubt that it's water contamination. Test the oil by taking a sheet of copy paper and pull the dipstick and let it drip a drop or two on the paper and look for a rainbow like color around the drip mark to determine if it's fuel in the oil. Or pull a sample and send it to a lab that will test it and tell you what is actually in the oil. Start with the simple stuff before diving deep.

That's what I thought, and that's what puzzled me at first. The oil isn't milky, and I drained some oil from the deep part of the pan two different times and there was no sign of water/antifreeze. It wasn't until I drained some from the shallow part that about 1/2 cup of antifreeze came out.

Totally agree ! Time to spend the money and get those really good "ARP" head studs.

I agree ARP studs would be the ideal, but is it necessary? From the link, a full set is almost $600, and those prices are 2 years old. That's more than 4 times the cost of the head gaskets!
Are the original studs torque-to-yield and HAVE to be replaced, or can they be reused if they're still in good condition?

I agree with what was stated above. Cracked block or head.

I went through something similar. The truck was consuming antifreeze, and there was very little in the oil. It was all vaporizing out of the breather, and the valve covers were covered in milkshake/sludge. This was after a head gasket swap. Ran fine all along, but was drinking antifreeze.

I ended up just having a new motor put in. Troubleshooting can end up being just as costly/timely.

Mine is steaming it out the breather with some sludge in the valve covers, and a little in the oil pan, but I don't think it's burning any. I hope it doesn't come down to replacing the engine...


My dad is gonna try to make room in his shop so I can work on it in there. It was 11 degrees last night and barely made it above freezing today, with no sunshine and the wind blowing. Not the kind of weather I want to work in.
I think the first thing I'm going to do is fix the leak in the radiator so I can pressurize the cooling system and try to isolate the leak, and go from there...


Thanks for the comments and info! It's appreciated!

 

[rustystud]

That's what I thought, and that's what puzzled me at first. The oil isn't milky, and I drained some oil from the deep part of the pan two different times and there was no sign of water/antifreeze. It wasn't until I drained some from the shallow part that about 1/2 cup of antifreeze came out.



I agree ARP studs would be the ideal, but is it necessary? From the link, a full set is almost $600, and those prices are 2 years old. That's more than 4 times the cost of the head gaskets!
Are the original studs torque-to-yield and HAVE to be replaced, or can they be reused if they're still in good condition?



Mine is steaming it out the breather with some sludge in the valve covers, and a little in the oil pan, but I don't think it's burning any. I hope it doesn't come down to replacing the engine...


My dad is gonna try to make room in his shop so I can work on it in there. It was 11 degrees last night and barely made it above freezing today, with no sunshine and the wind blowing. Not the kind of weather I want to work in.
I think the first thing I'm going to do is fix the leak in the radiator so I can pressurize the cooling system and try to isolate the leak, and go from there...


Thanks for the comments and info! It's appreciated!

As far as the studs go, remember these are 40 year old (plus) studs. They should all be replaced as a matter of course. Now should you buy the "ARP" studs ? That I feel is a personal decision as to what you want your truck to be able to do. If your going to try and "up" the injection pump for more power then I would definitely go with the "ARP" studs. If your going to just be tooling around town occasionally and go to some parades every now and then, I'd just buy some factory studs.

 

[M37M35]

To update this thread, and so someone can find the info in a search later on, here's the continuation of this issue...

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showt...n-appears-slightly-melted-What-to-do-about-it

I posted the other thread to ask questions about the separate issue of the melted piston, and the cause of this issue ended up being discussed there. Any future updates will be posted in the other thread linked above.