What oil to use?

[supermechanic]

Regarding post directly above, At a lube school I attended some 30 years ago, the information imparted to us claimed fully half of the dirt and grunge inside of an engine was introduced while changing or checking oil. Food for thought.

 

[Skinny]

99% of the cars/trucks on the road have engines with filters that are not vertical facing up. If this was such a major concern, engine makers would mount them correctly so they can be pre-filled. If it is, I certainly would fill it but most of the time you can't. An engine right after an oil change makes a little valvetrain noise for one or two seconds, then the dummy light goes out or the gauge comes up. If anything, an engine endures much worse run time with no oil pressure on cold starts then after an oil change.

I wouldn't lose sleep over it. As far as dirt goes, these are pretty crude machines. As long as the area around the dipstick, oil filter, and filler neck are clean, you won't have issues. It is not like an automatic transmission where lint from a rag can ruin something. Only engines built within the last 10 or so years have really been so precise, they require synthetic zero weight oil due to tolerances.

 

[CycleJay]

Hello 001CUCV,

I use Shell Rotella T 15w-40 Diesel oil.

 

[dozer1]

on the filter pre-fill side story. I was always under the impression that this was done on large engines that have very large filters with the gasket surface vertical up. The reason for this is to prevent filter damage from the oil pump filling the empty filter too fast. Could potentially blow out the element.

I have read this in different service manuals over the years, but any attempt to back it up with a google search has failed me so far. Anyone else hear this before? (would not pertain to a 6.2 filter)

 

[SouthernSteel]

i started using Royal purple synthetic 15w 40 and so far i cant complain yeah its a high cost for an oil change but with the fact the diesel is at high rpms at 55mph i figured any help i could give it would be a plus seems to run like a champ but im gonna have to replace the rear main seal at some point its been leaking every since i have had the truck

 

[islandguydon]

FYI, The Valvoline 10 minute oil change place near me has a semi-synthetic 15-40 diesel blend oil. The normal oil change interval is 5000.00 miles instead of the standard 3000.

The cost is 1.09 more than the Rotella brand. So if you do the math its a better deal, and in my humble opinion a better oil. Multi-fuel/CUCV/Generator or a standard diesel truck its good in all diesels.

 

[emr]

For the fellow who was proclaimed the expert, U really should have said it like U did in the last post, that U are passing on info, It sounded in your first post like u new this to be the super fact, in an e mail it sounded that way, way to many guys not realizing it sound like experts, but really should be saying ..." In My Opinion, Or I have this info from a class i took and think its worth passing, then U wont here the your an authority reply, Most people have an opinion they believe bacause they respected the person who told them, But usually it is just that an opinion.

 

[chevyCUCV]

FYI, The Valvoline 10 minute oil change place near me has a semi-synthetic 15-40 diesel blend oil. The normal oil change interval is 5000.00 miles instead of the standard 3000.

The cost is 1.09 more than the Rotella brand. So if you do the math its a better deal, and in my humble opinion a better oil. Multi-fuel/CUCV/Generator or a standard diesel truck its good in all diesels.

I would never do 5000 oci again. It happened by mistake over the winter to me
That oil was super thick and black

3000 is the number i am going by from now on.

Also i have used shell rotella, only because it has been cheapest or on sale every time i am buying

 

[BIG_RED]

I second buying shell rotella and changing it every 3000. Diesels have more blow-by than a gasser and the oil takes more of a beating. IMHO "extended oil change intervals" are not smart (money savings wise) on a diesel unless you have a fancy bypass filter setup like a big rig (and for them it's only worth it because they travel 1000 miles a day and have 3 gallons of oil to change<slight exaggeration>). In my shop we say "Oil is cheap, engines are not". YMMV.

 

[islandguydon]

I am sold on semi synthetic HD Diesel oil 15x40. In the winter I plug the trucks in. IMHO after the break in period is over the synthetic portion does the engine well.

 

[seano11]

Well the cat mechanic came by to service are big cat genset one of these ones that will power a town well anyways we are not aloud to touch it since its under warranty and leased. So anyways I was in there bull****ting with him well he was changing the oil so I figured I'd fill the filter for him well that went over real well buddy just lost it when I handed him the full filter gave me the whole do you know how much this dam engine cost and a bunch of other stuff them he proceed to throw the filter out and get a new one anyways I told him about the thread on here and he had a good chuckle said before he started being a actual journeyman mechanic he use to fill them to. He said if your worried about dry starts run Lucas in it. Tried to get him to do a educational video but he wasn't down for that

 

[wayne pick]

I stand corrected my friend.

 

[Iceman3005]

My dad worked on mostly gas and some diesel engines for 30yrs, he also went to school for it and you never fill the filter, that is what he was taught in school. When he started to teach me how to work on vehicles, that is how he trained me, So I don't fill the filter. In my opinion its your truck/engine you can do what ever you like. I did an experiment once, I filled the filter with oil then started the engine, I noticed that the oil got black a lot sooner than normal. It only took about 800-900 miles to get black as opposed to 1500-1800 miles. This was just my observation on my engine.

 

[Skinny]

My dad worked on mostly gas and some diesel engines for 30yrs, he also went to school for it and you never fill the filter, that is what he was taught in school. When he started to teach me how to work on vehicles, that is how he trained me, So I don't fill the filter. In my opinion its your truck/engine you can do what ever you like. I did an experiment once, I filled the filter with oil then started the engine, I noticed that the oil got black a lot sooner than normal. It only took about 800-900 miles to get black as opposed to 1500-1800 miles. This was just my observation on my engine.

From a technical standpoint, how would the oil become blacker sooner?

 

[dozer1]

This is noteworthy from cummins.com

It is in regards to servicing M11 and N14 Cummins engines.

Maintenance Tips

Cummins recommends using Fleetguard® LF3000 oil filters for L10, M11 and N14 engines. This single-canister filter with bypass eliminates the need for a remote bypass filter.

Mechanical overtightening of the oil and fuel filters can distort the threads or damage the filter element seal. Install the filter as specified by the filter manufacturer.

Wait until the coolant temperature is below 50°C (120°F) before removing the coolant system pressure cap. Failure to do so can cause personal injury from heated coolant spray.

Cummins B and C Series engines should have initial valve adjustments at 24,000 miles, then every 48,000 miles afterward.

Cummins recommends the cooling system be drained and flushed every two years and refilled with a 50/50 mixture of low-silicate antifreeze and water. This provides freeze protection to -34°F. Freeze protection decreases above 68% antifreeze.

Never use caustic cleaners in the cooling system. Aluminum components will be damaged.

Cummins recommends that fuel filters be changed at least every other oil change. Fuel/water separator filters should be checked daily - drain any accumulated water. Do not drain an excessive amount of fuel out or re-priming the fuel system may be required to get engine started.

It is critical to engine life to use high-quality SAE 15W-40 heavy-duty engine oil such as Premium Blue®, which meets API performance classification for CE or CF-4. Midrange engines require SG classification due to sliding cam followers.

Fill the oil filters with clean lubricating oil when changing the engine oil to ensure immediate bearing lubrication when restarting the engine. Failure to pre-lube the oil filter may cause bearing damage.

Cummins requires that a fuel-water separator be used with all '91 N14 and L10 electronic engines. Cummins recommends that a fuel-water separator be installed in the fuel supply on all other engine series. Fuel-water separators will remove water in diesel fuel, preventing damage to the fuel system.

Cummins used/dirty filter maximum restriction is 510mm H20 (20 in. H20) for naturally aspirated midrange engines (B and C Series) and 635mm H20 (25 in. H20) for all turbocharged midrange, heavy-duty and high-horsepower engines. Excessive air intake restriction can result in black smoke under load, poor fuel consumption, low power and increased soot levels.

Cummins requires that a fuel pre-filter must be installed before the lift pump on B and C Series midrange engines.

The link this was taken from is here. Cummins.com > Customer Assistance > Performance Tips

This helps to back up what I said earlier about pre filling filters for large engines with very high capacity filters. They say to do it for a different reason then I did tho.

Now my personal opinion is that I would fill any large vertical up filter that I do an oil change on. Use new, clean oil and keep all of your boogers out of the filter, then put it on. Horizonal filters, no way. Forget it. If the manufacturer thought it needed to be pre filled, they would not have use a horizonal filter.

 

[dozer1]

From a technical standpoint, how would the oil become blacker sooner?

Thats what I asked myself too. Only thing I could come up with is he pre charged the filter with black waste oil. LOL I am sure he didn't do that....

 

[seano11]

This is noteworthy from cummins.com

It is in regards to servicing M11 and N14 Cummins engines.

Maintenance Tips

Cummins recommends using Fleetguard® LF3000 oil filters for L10, M11 and N14 engines. This single-canister filter with bypass eliminates the need for a remote bypass filter.

Mechanical overtightening of the oil and fuel filters can distort the threads or damage the filter element seal. Install the filter as specified by the filter manufacturer.

Wait until the coolant temperature is below 50°C (120°F) before removing the coolant system pressure cap. Failure to do so can cause personal injury from heated coolant spray.

Cummins B and C Series engines should have initial valve adjustments at 24,000 miles, then every 48,000 miles afterward.

Cummins recommends the cooling system be drained and flushed every two years and refilled with a 50/50 mixture of low-silicate antifreeze and water. This provides freeze protection to -34°F. Freeze protection decreases above 68% antifreeze.

Never use caustic cleaners in the cooling system. Aluminum components will be damaged.

Cummins recommends that fuel filters be changed at least every other oil change. Fuel/water separator filters should be checked daily - drain any accumulated water. Do not drain an excessive amount of fuel out or re-priming the fuel system may be required to get engine started.

It is critical to engine life to use high-quality SAE 15W-40 heavy-duty engine oil such as Premium Blue®, which meets API performance classification for CE or CF-4. Midrange engines require SG classification due to sliding cam followers.

Fill the oil filters with clean lubricating oil when changing the engine oil to ensure immediate bearing lubrication when restarting the engine. Failure to pre-lube the oil filter may cause bearing damage.

Cummins requires that a fuel-water separator be used with all '91 N14 and L10 electronic engines. Cummins recommends that a fuel-water separator be installed in the fuel supply on all other engine series. Fuel-water separators will remove water in diesel fuel, preventing damage to the fuel system.

Cummins used/dirty filter maximum restriction is 510mm H20 (20 in. H20) for naturally aspirated midrange engines (B and C Series) and 635mm H20 (25 in. H20) for all turbocharged midrange, heavy-duty and high-horsepower engines. Excessive air intake restriction can result in black smoke under load, poor fuel consumption, low power and increased soot levels.

Cummins requires that a fuel pre-filter must be installed before the lift pump on B and C Series midrange engines.

The link this was taken from is here. Cummins.com > Customer Assistance > Performance Tips

This helps to back up what I said earlier about pre filling filters for large engines with very high capacity filters. They say to do it for a different reason then I did tho.

Now my personal opinion is that I would fill any large vertical up filter that I do an oil change on. Use new, clean oil and keep all of your boogers out of the filter, then put it on. Horizonal filters, no way. Forget it. If the manufacturer thought it needed to be pre filled, they would not have use a horizonal filter.

If your gonna fill a filter before you put it on there Is a proper way to do it you must get a funnel and pour the oil through the outer holes not the main inner one

 

[TRH]

Kendall Super-D XA 15/40 has been my choice, comes to around $60-70 for a four gallon case of it.

If your gonna fill a filter before you put it on there Is a proper way to do it you must get a funnel and pour the oil through the outer holes not the main inner one

Same for fuel filters. I work with a guy that used to do Genset service for Milton Cat and his view has been to prime the oil filters before use, which is what I've generally been taught -- fresh out of the container oil is about as clean as you can hope I'd expect. But he primed only the primary (suction) fuel filter, then hand-pump-primed the secondary (pressure) fuel filter.
The explanation I was giving for priming that has always been agreed on: Turbo bearings. Most of them are fed off the oil cooler/filter-base, and the filter filling starves them momentarily.

International has been giving me conflicting information on priming filters on their MaxxForce engines though, so who knows..

 

[seano11]

Kendall Super-D XA 15/40 has been my choice, comes to around $60-70 for a four gallon case of it.



Same for fuel filters. I work with a guy that used to do Genset service for Milton Cat and his view has been to prime the oil filters before use, which is what I've generally been taught -- fresh out of the container oil is about as clean as you can hope I'd expect. But he primed only the primary (suction) fuel filter, then hand-pump-primed the secondary (pressure) fuel filter.
The explanation I was giving for priming that has always been agreed on: Turbo bearings. Most of them are fed off the oil cooler/filter-base, and the filter filling starves them momentarily.

International has been giving me conflicting information on priming filters on their MaxxForce engines though, so who knows..

What soize maxxforce are you running? and do you like it ?

 

[TRH]

13's and 15's on some newer units. So far they've been in for Warranty primarily on issues with the Eaton AutoShifts (crap if you ask me), the engines are starting to come around the 200,000 mile mark without much -- a few oddball coolant leaks, a bolt for the oil filter housing backing out. It seems like a strong motor, I wish they had stuck with the FROs though.
We're doing oil samples every 15k to gauge wear and tear until they prove themselves.
I'm mostly impressed the EGR system hasn't blown up in my face -- yet. No cooler leaks, valves, driver issues whatsoever - yet. The regular regen DPF systems have hiccuped, but the problem has never repeated to get into the shop.