What's the best way to wire a 12v winch into my 5-ton?

[jimk]

My experience running an 11T equipment trailer w/electric brakes - there is no problems in using 12V off one bat. 1000+ miles now. This includes a 600+ mile trip (1/2 at night - lights...). The bat(s) I am using are the ones that came with it.They are old and VERY small. They don't hold a charge well. If it sits 4 months or so I just get a click. However they provide good service when kept in use, using a stock 24V alt. Continuous light loads, or heavy intermittent loads, will be OK, in my opinion. CCA of just one good bat should satisfy the most demanding accessory. Make sure the conductors are within spec. There may be a better 'way' but adding complexity often adds cost,weight,reliability,maintenance,and service issues. JimK



p.s. I'd suggest try 12V, -IF- you have a problem then work on a fix

 

[Junkyard Wars Crusher]

Here's some more food for thought:

(from the Roscommon Equipment Center Website - they specialize in the conversion of U.S. Military vehicles to wildland fire suppression units)

Click here: Wiring Conversions on Military Vehicles

and

Click here: Adding a 12 Volt DC Charging Circuit

Here is their home page: http://www.roscommonequipmentcenter.com/
(off topic) Browse around, there is some other cool stuff to see (like a remote reservoir for brake master cylinder - like the mod devilman96 did on the Diablo build)

 

[Blythewoodjoe]

Thanks Jeff for that link. It answered all my questions about how all this works. To say any more would be redundant.

Joe Trapp

 

[jimk]

Tired from work so apologies if this seems snotty or disrespectful.

Nice read, but rather misleading.

The article defines overcharging, and it's consequences, but only at one level ,an extreme. Conclusions are based on this worst case scenario: "must frequently rotate batteries...".

It states "An imbalance between two batteries does not automatically level off..." then goes on to explain how it does, by overcharging one battery. It doesn't include - to varying degrees, for various loads or applications with intermittent loads (winch).

It states, "a battery that stays undercharged will become sulfated". Again, the rate that this happens is important, and not covered. Lead acid batteries will have the longest life span when used daily. All batteries discharge. After a few weeks sulfate deposits do start to form, slowly, at a molecular level, with minimal impact on life span. The fully discharged battery will be useless in less than a week.

The voltage regulator controls voltage within a narrow range, usually around 13.5V-14.5V(12 Volt system). A solid state regulator, like my deuce's, controls voltage very well , to within a range of one volt. H2O breakdown happens past a certain voltage, called the 'gassing threshold' typically around 14.4V (12V batteries, and varies with temp), the primary concern with overcharging.

My deuce typically runs an hour or less w/other loads constantly used and replaced. It sits unused 98% of the year. If I was really concerned with battery life I'd start with a bat. minder. The deterioration from lack of daily usage far outweighs the min. impact of my light, brief overcharge events. This is why my batteries suck. My deuce sat for years, unused, before I got it (same bats.)

Looking at it another way, I have used my winch(PTO) three times in the last 2 years, (ok,snicker if you must). Each time the task was over in less than 5 min, and not terribly demanding at that.

Imagine -how much- of one fully charged battery an electric winch uses in 5 min.(5%?).
Imagine -how long- the recharge period would be (1/2hr?)
Imagine how 'bad' any overcharge during that time (14.5V instead of 13.5V-worst case)
Imagine the loss of bat. life due to overcharge (59 months instead of 60?,and one bat)

Ok , a guessing game, and for my situation not others. With intermittent loads the system is balanced again after recharge. How much load, and for how long, may be the real issue. JimK

 

[rmgill]

Jim it will work that way, but batteries charge based on their charge staten and the amount of resistance. That resistance changes as you change charge state AND that means the amount of charge it needs changes. When you're charging two batteries in series, the amperage of current going though the first is also pulled through the second. When one is lower than the other in charge state, you get a slight bit of cooking of the over charged battery and the undercharged batter doesn't' get charged enough. Eventually, you loose a battery from sulfation.

Personally, I'd get a 24 volt winch first (or convert it), or second rig up a dual voltage Generator/alternator and make up a 12/24 system. Currently, I have a 12/24 system with a solid state converter for running the truck's accessories like GPS, electric brake controller and other things. It's nice to have proper 12 volt. I like the idea better though of having a 12 volt system with it's own battery. That way I can park and still draw from the 12 volt system.

 

[chief76433]

I looked at adding a 12V alt. to our 5 ton and believe that it could be done but I am not a good enough fabricator to build a bracket.Has anyone ever made one or know where a pic of one can be seen?Can someone build and sell a bracket for a Cummins?

 

[RF202]

As has been suggested, your best bet is to switch to a 24V motor. I have installed/used a number of electric winches over the last 35 years, on a daily basis, and I can tell you that the higher voltage is the way to go. Basically, the winch you have is considered a "recreational" winch which is not, in anyway, a heavy duty winch, by no means. The better choice, although more expensive, is an "industrial" winch. The single largest factor, in the performance of an electric winch, is the distance from the batteries to the motor - i.e., voltage drop. This will rob power/peformance quicker than anything else. Also, use at least the same size cables as you have going to the engine starter. Use too small of cables and under a hard, constant pull, you'll turn your truck into a barbecue pit. Electric winches pull an obscene amount of current. Properly rigged, they are quite serviceable.

 

[Junkyard Wars Crusher]

Tired from work so apologies if this seems snotty or disrespectful.

Hey JimK, no need to get snotty or disrespectful, we're all friends here

Your point is well taken about "what works for you". It's hard to refute personal empirical experience. Just keep in mind that the article was written by an organization that deals with equipment intended for use by the fire service. Equipment must be 100% at all times. A lot of guys here work their trucks hard and might want to build their trucks for the extreme. The article is not bashing your setup, just presenting the opposite side of the spectrum.