Wheel Lug Nuts & Studs and Anti-Seize

[Another Ahab]

We all got opinions, but experience always speaks the loudest. The attached was pulled from another (separate) vehicle forum. Found other related threads that relate, but not addressing the issue specifically. Just curious. Any corporate memory or wisdom to share?

A tip on the studs or bolts themselves is to clean them well before torqueing them together, and on lugs I highly recommend using ANTI-SIEZE compound (available at any auto parts supplier) to both lubricate the threads and guard against rust or corrosion later on. A/S Compound can be put on the threads and also on the rubbing surfaces of the hardware - such as the cone area of acorn type nuts.

I disagree on the antisieze for lugs. I know someone that did out it on their freghtliner tractor, then when he went to take off the wheel later on, (after winter driving) he almost had to burn them off and replace the studs and lugs. We found out later that the anti sieze and either the road salt or calcium hyochloride they put on the roads reacted with each other. Basically it turned the antisieze into glue. My mechanic that does my inspections also does not put anti sieze on wheel studs cause he said he has had issues as well.

 

[Flyingvan911]

I'll wire brush the studs and lugs of they're rusty. I always spray PB Blaster on the studs before I put the nuts on.

 

[Gunzy]

Simple bearing grease.

 

[Vintage iron]

I am a diesel mechanic and work on gravel trucks, Trucks that run local here in MA. And long haul trucks. We always clean the treads and apply antiseize to all the studs. The old timer that works has been doing it for 40 yrs with out issue. We pull one of his old trucks out if the weeds that had sat for 15 yrs. because he anti seized the lug thread the nuts came right off. You can do what you think is best, but at a minimum always clean the threads and put at least oil on them.

 

[steelandcanvas]

This has come up several times on this Forum. I will clean the Budd nuts and lugs with a wire brush, and use anti-sieze on the threads. If you do a good pre-trip, you should notice anything coming loose. I painted a line across the nut and lug bolt to bring any loosening to my attention.

 

[gringeltaube]

Old-timer-trucker's rule......


G.

 

[73m819]

Never anti-seize/grease wheel studs/lugs,
1-- a DOT inspection WILL sideline the truck as anti-seize is a NO NO,
2--you can over tighten the stud/lug, there by STRETCHING and WEAKENING, you may end up with the same torque BUT the nut/thimble is tightened more to get the torque because the anti-seize/grease lubes the threads over tightening of the lubed threads to get the correct torque STRETCHES THE STUDS/THIMBLE THREADS

The torque specs for wheel stud/thimble/nut is CLEAN/DRY

 

[Vintage iron]

there is always one.

 

[gringeltaube]

........................................

2--you can over tighten the stud/lug................................

Ron, there are always pros and cons to everything... Lubed threads are not dangerous... but a guy who doesn't know what he's doing - HE IS DANGEROUS!

My drawing was supposed to reflect what the general consensus seems to be, plus a big portion of old-fart's experience and some universal common sense....: Studs and lugnuts are supposed to be reused, so I'd be VERY interested to preserve the threads like they came from factory and not loose any material due to friction and/or rust. Not to mention the chance of rusty nuts seizing on rusty studs and stripping their threads during removal...!

On the other hand I'm convinced that more dry studs are being broken or severely damaged/overstretched from using heavy impact guns and breaker-bar extensions... then from torquing down (lubed)studs & nuts, with an appropriate torque wrench.

Regarding propper torque and what lubricating does, here is just one of many interesting articles: http://www.mechanicsupport.com/articleTorqueWrench.html


G.

 

[wdbtchr]

I'll probably get hollered at, but I always use either high nickle antiseize or blue locktight on everything. In my humble opinion blue locktight works on clean lugbolts because it seals the threads and prevents corrosion. I've not lost a single lugnut on my M-37 even with the flat seats for what that's worth. Just my opinion but I'm 63 and ain't gonna change now.

 

[Flyingvan911]

If you really want to get back at someone, switch their anti-seize for red thread locker Loctite.

 

[jatonka]

Anti Seize is not a lubricant, read the container. No DOT in NY State has ever given me trouble about anti seize on my lug nuts... either Budd or Dayton style. If you are worried, don't anti seize the thimble, only the outer nut, now no problemo. Gringletraube pretty much has the story straight, He and guys like myself have pretty much been there. JT out

 

[Vintage iron]

Don't change now. If you haven't killed yourself yet, your probably safe

 

[ducer]

I wrenched on new Buicks and even they had some type of lubricant in the threads from the factory. Every mechanic I ever met or know puts some type of lubricant on the threads. Even in GM tech school they said lube the threads with wd40 or light oil but do not put anything on the seat of the rim or nut.
Truck mechanics used anti sieze on studs only and car guys used wd40 for open lug nuts and anti sieze on closed end lug nuts. I never have seen a lost wheel from lubing the threads but I have seen plenty from not tight enough. My experience runs from steel hauling over the road tractors and trailers to tow trucks and all inbetween. Just my.

Denny

 

[Diecorpse]

Using wmo works well. It's free and keeps the lugs from seizing up. Greese works but any extra will catch and hold dirt. I lube threads on any bolt from all parts. Makes future removal easier. Nothing sucks more when you get a flat in the winter and need to change it out and your lug nuts won't come off. I have a drop side bed, and when I went to remove the lock bolts, I had to hit them with a hammer to loosen them. I caked the crap out them with grease over two years ago, still comes off with no problem and they have never came loose either.

 

[Scar59]

Moderation is the key. A little anti seize goes a long way. I have been appling in on car, truck, and tractor wheel studs and tie bolt stud for years. Proper torque and regular check/inspections are basic PM. Aircraft wheel manufacture require anti sieze on wheel tie bolts to ensure proper torque is achieved during assembly.
To help maintain stud thread life, wire brush the exposed threads and lube w/ a little WD40 or clead engine oil prior to removing the lug nut. Keep your nuts tight.
JC

 

[cranetruck]

Most of us probably don't use a torque wrench on lug nuts, but there is a difference between "wet" and "dry", otherwise there shouldn't be a problem with anti seize.

 

[swbradley1]

Interesting. I don't have a Pocket Ref Book but I found this reference to it.

Can someone tell if it is correct? If so that is a heck of a difference between dry and wet.



Excerpt:
Torque values from wet to dry very greatly. From Thomas Glovers "Pocket Ref" reference manual.


5/16" bolt - 18 threads/inch
No Lube - steel: 29 Foot/Lbs
Plated and cleaned: 19
SAE 20 oil: 18
SAE 40 oil: 17
Plated and SAE 30: 16
White grease: 16
Dry moly film: 14
Graphite and Oil: 13
########


If true that means if you are applying the same torque to a "wet" bolt/stud as when you torque a dry one you are stretching the heck out of the bolt (figuratively speaking of course).



This is getting to be as good as an insurance thread.

 

[73m819]

To prove my point, take a screwdriver, pick it up by the dry flat blade with TWO fingers, then dip the blade in STP oil additive, pick up the coated blade by the same two fingers, you are picking up the same weight but it takes a LOT more force to pick up and hold.

You can say what you want, it can be proven that a lubed a bolt thread can be over tightened, there is a REASON why at times there is TWO torque values lubed and dry, A lubed thread has less resistance than a dry one, all torque is TURNING resistance, so to get the SAME TURNING RESISTANCE of a lubed thread as a dry thread, the lubed item WILL HAVE to be turned MORE then the dry item, there by STRETCHING the lubed threaded item more then the dry threaded item.

Just because something has been done by "old timers" or been done this way since the begining of time, does not mean it is correct, as things change, a LOT of the way things were done has been found to be the wrong way, unsafe.

 

[emr]

There are ABSOLUTLY NO NO NO rules / laws against using this, this has been covered so many times this thread starter should have been told to use the search function and then closed, It IS advisable to do, simple, what kills me about guys saying one can get into trouble by law doing something like this when it is absolutly FALSE... and it is all in there mind, Now in anyones defense who thinks that , they may have HEARD THIS , But we as adults should know not to spread opinions of others as " Law . Period. I know there are kids and adults on this site, Kids need to know to offer opinons when they dont know and facts ONLY if they can back it up with a code or law . Actually adults too...