Where did all the big trucks go?

[98G]

I have spent a good bit of time looking for any posting of a scan, or even the verbatim text, of the letter that AM General supposedly sent, to no avail. I will be happy to try to help resolve this issue - if someone will send me the letter. I have the ear of the AM General, who is personally interested in historic military vehicles, and he has indicated a willingness to try to resolve the matter, once I can define the problem in concrete terms - by producing the letter. Help me help all of us.

By the way, the company president is having a question and answer session at the convention, and will be happy to answer questions.

Best,
David

Here you go - and the link to the court documents-

Kren v. White, 2019 Ill. App. 4th 180780 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Kren v. White, 2019 Ill. App. 4th 180780, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

 

[Bill Nutting]

It was within the past 10 years and had to do with all the Army HMMWVs being released for auction, but with Off-Road Only titles. AM-General claimed that the terms of the HMMWV contract forbade the sale of them when the military was finished with them, and the ability of some owners to obtain on-road titles became an issue with AM-General, so they sent letters explaining their position to all 50 states’ DMVs.

I saw a copy of one of these letters at a NV DMV office somewhere around 2014 or 2015...it specifically mentioned HMMWVs but DMV supervisors took it to mean ALL AM-General vehicles; a number of 5-ton registrations and titles were subsequently revoked, and afterwards it became very difficult to register a 939-series 5-ton in NV (yes I know there were some that were able to title their trucks afterwards with no issues, and my 931 & 920 never were flagged nor mentioned, but it was still happening to folks).

DMV directors were attending conferences and “get-aways” (on the tax payer dime of course) to discuss “issues” across multiple states, and this letter was a hot topic at the time...it was passed around and discussed at these meetings, and no sooner after the conference ended that copies started appearing at various NV DMV offices.

Just recalling personal experience with it; others may have better memories than I, but in summary that’s the issue.

Well this makes some sense. Perhaps the reason for the “no sale after use” clause had something to do with a license agreement with GM so the sale of military HMMWV’s didn’t interfere with the sale of civilian Hummers. I still don’t know what the arrangement was between AM an GM for the Hummers...

 

[Bill Nutting]

We have been working with our state government for a few years in Michigan. The Secretary of State and the last two governors sited the same lame excuses to keep HMMWV’s off the road and block legal registration. Let me blow holes in their misguided “logic”.
1) They don’t meet federal vehicle safety standards. A) Ever heard of the Woodward Dream Cruise? Every year over 100,000 classic cars, hot rods, rat rods, trucks mini bikes, motor cycles and anything else you can imagine comes to the Detroit suburbs to drive up and down Woodward Avenue. It’s the largest such gathering in America. It goes on for days. I’ll bet that 99% of these vehicles don’t have airbags, 50% or more lack seat belts. Yet they all sport a license plate and are registered. B) AM was granted a variance when they were awarded their contract to build these vehicles.
2) They don’t meet emissions standards. A) They don’t have to. AM General and probably every military vehicle manufacturer were granted a variance from the federal government to produce vehicles that didn’t meet emissions standards. Back to the Dream Cruise. None of those old vehicles or hot rods meet any kind of standards.
3) They don’t have proper 17 character VIN numbers. A) This one is laughable! Are they not smart enough to append the existing serial number with a standard set of characters to fill in the missing spaces? They could use number like 123456, or letters like “military“ or anything to extend the serial number and make it a valid VIN.

In Michigan some of the mental giants in our legislature used the lame excuse that the HMMWV was too wide for some of our residential streets. A) The other day I was following a Dodge 3500 dualy pick up. His rear tires were just inside the lines of his lane. It has a wider stance than my M934 5 ton! He had a license plate and registration for that beast.

In short, these petty tyrants in our State governments may just be ignorant, but I think there is more to it. These folks tend to hate the military and anything that reminds them of the military. This vitriol extends to us because of how our vehicles look. It’s just like racism with them. Judge the person by the color of their vehicle. There is no place in their world for green, camo or sand color vehicles. Now go to the back of the buss you MV freaks...

 

[41cl8m5]

It’s the last line of that letter that the State of Colorado holds as “the word from god”

 

[DDoyle]

I believe AM General had a revelation after someone somewhere in some department found out how important military vehicles are to some people. I saw a flip in response from AM General right around the time Quebec Canada tried to limit or ban MV's. I asked AM General what their position was and this is what Liz Carpenter sent back. I sent a reply letter asking them to reconsider that position and I didn't hear back. Instead, it seemed like the Quebec problem went away and we were registering AM Generals north of the border again. AM General flipped their position and started supplying parts. Whatever happened since this letter they sure have stepped up, ..........Welcome back General!

View attachment 836741



Here's the original thread. https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/mv-illegal-on-highway-in-canada-quebec.190107/page-3

perfect - this the document that I needed to carry this further. Thank you. My contact is out of the country - having left yesterday (which is why I had pushed hard early), but I will pass this along in about a week.

Thanks,
David Doyle
www.DavidDoyleBooks.com

 

[Crazyguyla]

I remember back in the late 80's/early 90's when hmmwv's started to hit the auction scene and private citizens weren't allowed to purchase them, only corporations and govt entities. The question was raised back then why and all I can remember was that everyone's favorite person, Ralph Nader, had deemed them unfit for hwy use. This was before AM General started selling Hummers. I remember there being a company in Many, La that sold as is to completely refurbished hmmwv's with clean titles for civilian use. This is all ancient pre-history as far the internet and DRMO getting out of the auction business. Now I feel old..

 

[fuzzytoaster]

I am 99% certain that their intent is 5-ton and up - that was made by AM General. The M915 series were built by AM General using a chassis designed by Tulsa-based Crane Carrier Corp (their Centaur I) - and CCC was paid a licensing fee by AM General, but the trucks were assembled at 701 W. Chippewa in South Bend.

Best,
David

Could we get a confirmation on this "5 ton and up"? I'd hate to drag a 916 half way across the country only to be told it doesn't qualify.

 

[Major Asstyrd]

This is not an AM General convention, it just has a significant theme about AM General and their legacy brands. The show is for any ex-military vehicle and people who like them. And unlike shows for other types of vehicles, MV events connect with military veterans. Many, perhaps most vets enjoy the chance to see and touch their favorite MV again, and show them to their families. MV events big and small are an opportunity to put our hobby and businesses in front of new people. They give MV restorers and owners a chance to strut their stuff in front of hopefully a lot of people to include the prominent ones involved with MVs.

AM General has taken on a supporting role with backing from their top man. They ought to be thanked. It is great for the event and will be for some participants directly. Use this opportunity to get in with a big military vehicle manufacturer. It's bound to help.

 

[cobra5]

$1500 wouldn't cover travel costs from Montana if I was to drive my deuce that far. Too bad they wouldn't consider video submissions or live feeds the day of the event from MVPA members who live too far away to attend.

 

[DDoyle]

Could we get a confirmation on this "5 ton and up"? I'd hate to drag a 916 half way across the country only to be told it doesn't qualify.

Yes, I have confirmed, in writing from AM General, that it is 5-ton and up, so M916 is definitely in. Sorry for the slow response, we had a sudden, unexpected death in the family that took me away from things olive drab for several days.

David Doyle
www.DavidDoyleBooks.com

 

[microjeep]

Here's the event David is speaking of hope to see lots of you there,

2021 MVPA Convention, South Bend Indiana

https://www.mvpa.org/convention South Bend Indiana Anyone planning to attend? Is Steel Soldiers planning to have a booth/area to meet up? If not maybe someone more familiar with the area/venue could make a suggestion? Any additional info is greatly appreciated. Looking forward to attending and...

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[Bill Nutting]

Yes, I have confirmed, in writing from AM General, that it is 5-ton and up, so M916 is definitely in. Sorry for the slow response, we had a sudden, unexpected death in the family that took me away from things olive drab for several days.

David Doyle
www.DavidDoyleBooks.com

David,
I’m sorry to hear of your loss. This is far more important than anything O.D..

 

[DDoyle]

So I've been reading about this AM General contest and what exactly defines a "5 ton"? Does it include anything larger than a 5 ton that was made by AM General? We all know that they made the M915 family (yes yes they acquired CCC but it was made under their ownership) and they stamped their name on the hood. Case and point my factory "fresh" M916 with the Allison made in 2012. Latest and last they made before they took an axe to that branch of the company.

As mentioned in another thread, the event listing has been corrected to include the M915-series (which it was intended to along - the ommission was made by me) in the contest.
Best,
David Doyle
www.DavidDoyleBooks.com