Which radio for the HMMWV?

[DoctorCheney223]

Hi Folks,

I want to install a .mil radio in my M998 but have NO clue as to which model. I am not trying to make it period correct because I am not restoring the vehicle to 1986 specfications. We are using the vehicle as an advertising tool and the radio being functional is NOT an issue. If it powers up that's cool but I am not trying to keep comms with friends/others.

Austin Aviation has various radio mounts for the HMMWV and Murphy's Surplus has various radios... can you guys give me some advice on which models I should purchase.

thanks!!!!
Ron

 

[emmado22]

You can get away with the VRC-12 series stuff, it's easily availible and relatively cheap. Or you can go with the SINCGARS stuff that Murphy's has, but they are BIG $$$$$$$$.

Either is OK for a HMMWV. It's just how much $$ you want to part with for the project.

 

[tmbrwolf]

I've seen the PRC-25 / 77 series with the vehicular amplifier, any of the VRC-12 series of radios or the SINGARS, all would be correct for installation in the HMMWV

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

As others have said, pretty much anything from the VRC-12 family thru current SINCGARS stuff is 'correct'. Both were in Desert Storm side-by-side and even later, and the Guard just turfed the last of their VRC-12 family sets either last year or the year before.

Most common radio in the VRC-12 family in a Humvee configuration is the RT-524 as part of the AN/VRC-46 (basically the RT-524 transceiver with the rest of its kit), and you can add an R-442 if you want an auxiliary receiver too. PVT Jarhead's Surplus has the best deals going on the RT-524 at the moment ($395 in Very Good condition, I think), but there are other vendors out there too, and the odd one shows up on Ebay for around that price or less. Ebay vendor Austin Aviation ('beltfed34') frequently has the early style Humvee radio shelves and installation brackets etc. in his Ebay store, so you might want to check there for the bits'n'pieces.

As to the later family stuff, the basic HMMWV-specific shelves/trays are *mostly* the same between VRC-12 and later SINCGARS - at least before FBCB2 installations. SINCGARS transceivers go for between about $1500 and $2200 each, and the vehicle adapters ('VAA's) go for anywhere between about 50 bucks to about $350 depending on the version and dealer. Mike Murphy has the RT-1523B(C)/U transceiver for SINCGARS right now for about $2200 each, and the AM-7239 VAA (vehicle adapter) for about $250 ea. Mike has good stuff and he has what he says he has...but...you have to dig deep to pay the price.

If you're shopping for SINCGARS stuff it's a bit of a minefield so ask someone knowledgeable before making a purchase. Some transceivers work with some VAAs and not others - some models of them will work after the demil card removal and some won't - and some are advertised as radios when they're really just remotes. Seen lots of all and either.

 

[jwaller]

bottom of this page is a pic of my hmmwv radio setup. I currently have a non working 524 which is the radio you see plus the mount for sale.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/milita...tb-hyp-57-tsec-vehicular-power-adapter-2.html

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

bottom of this page is a pic of my hmmwv radio setup. I currently have a non working 524 which is the radio you see plus the mount for sale.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/milita...tb-hyp-57-tsec-vehicular-power-adapter-2.html

Looks really good with the two KY-57s plumbed in there! I want to do an FBCB2 (SINCGARS, AN/UYK-128 computer) setup in one of the Humvees that go out for film work, but getting a display screen is proving to be a bit difficult. I see they faked one up for "Generation Kill" that didn't look too bad, so maybe I'll be forced to go that route.

Wish I had deep enough pockets for working SINCGARS, but...maybe I'll ask Santa.

 

[emmado22]

Here are some pics of the common SINCGARS setups from a few years ago that I found online.

The most common SINCGARS variant my guys had was the Long Range/Long Range version, that had the 2nd external power amp that would go right where the red Gatorade bottle is. I never quite understood the Short range/Long Range version (which are pictured in the 1st and 2nd pics). I'd rather have the capability to go the distance on both nets instead of just one. The 3rd pic shows the ASIPS SINCGARS, which are 1/2 the weight of the full size, and do about 10 times as much as the full size.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

Here are some pics of the common SINCGARS setups from a few years ago that I found online.

The 3rd pic shows the ASIPS SINCGARS, which are 1/2 the weight of the full size, and do about 10 times as much as the full size.

Cool. That last pic shows most of the FBCB2 Blue Force Tracker type setup with the computer (you can just catch a piece of the monitor at the rightmost frame of the pic) and the VIC-3 intercom. By the driver's right arm (the thing that looks like an armrest) is actually put there to stop the driver resting his arm against the AM-7238 amp attached to the SINCGARS VAA, which, at 50 watts output, can get mighty hot if the radio's transmitting a fair bit.

SINCGARS went through a few improvements. The ASIP radio is the RT-1523E transceiver, which, as you say, does a lot more than the earlier models (situational awareness - tactical internet) though the last models of the full-size RT-1523 (the C and D models) were SIP radios and do some of it, though I think at slower data rates. Easiest way to tell a SIP radio from the other full-size transceivers is to look on the keypad for the 'GPS' key.

In the first pics that VAA is either an A or a B model (two standard U-228 type connections on the uppermost part of the right side of the vehicle adapter) where the last pic shows what's probably an E model (computer/data connections in place of the U-228s) with some built-in data functions ('INC' I think - 'Integrated Network Controller' or something similar.) Oddly, a bunch of these newer VAAs are showing up all over despite the fact they're still current, and I've even seen some of the AM-7238 amps for sale brand-spanking new. Go figure.

I have some good pics of the FBCB2 setup with the computer and PLGR or DAGR if anyone's interested. All the installation manuals on LOGSA are 'A' coded too, so anyone can download them if they want to see how it all goes together in a HMMWV.

 

[emmado22]

Somewhere I have tons of pics of my trucks with the predecessor to the current FBCB2, then called the POSNAV, then V1, V2, V3 and the like. It has come a long way since then. Post up the pics of the DAGR stuff... That came out after I got out.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

Somewhere I have tons of pics of my trucks with the predecessor to the current FBCB2, then called the POSNAV, then V1, V2, V3 and the like. It has come a long way since then. Post up the pics of the DAGR stuff... That came out after I got out.

Hmm. POSNAV appears to have been Motorola based, but...wow...I'd like to see those pics as I didn't know we played with that system at all.

Here are a few pics of FBCB2 with both DAGR and PLGR. Still quite a few PLGRs out there though I *think* most should be gone by the end of next year. There were various schemes for mounting the FBCB2 display and at least two different RAM mounts for them, so the pics show them mounted alternately high and low.

 

[emmado22]

POSNAV was the first name of what later became FBCB2. This was about 1997/8 or so. Google Advanced Warfighter Experiment or EXFOR and you'll see all sorts of stuff they gave us in 4th ID, 1BCT at the time.

PLGRs will be arround for a few years, according to Rockwell Collins. They cant build DAGRs fast enough. Pluse, for vehicular based systems, 1) they work fine, 2) there are plenty of accessories for them in stock (power/antenna cables, Hockey puck antennas, mounts, ect) DAGR cables are expendsive, and the Army keeps going thru them like crazy.

 

[Wolf.Dose]

At least in Europe the PRC 77 was most common. But every other stuff of that time (1986) someway was also in use, depending on the unit stuff they were equipt with.
Wolf

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

PLGRs will be arround for a few years, according to Rockwell Collins. They cant build DAGRs fast enough. Pluse, for vehicular based systems, 1) they work fine, 2) there are plenty of accessories for them in stock (power/antenna cables, Hockey puck antennas, mounts, ect) DAGR cables are expendsive, and the Army keeps going thru them like crazy.

Supposedly all the weaps systems etc. which used PLGR and had no need for dismounted use are all supposed to get integrated GPS solutions rather than just replace PLGR with DAGR 'wastefully'. I think they're somewhat behind with that. The current JV-5 FBCB2 CPU can have on-board GPS rather than use the DAGR, and SINCGARS 'E' and 'F' transceivers can also have integrated GPS rather than use DAGR...so maybe DAGR as part of a vehicle inst will be phased out and you can leave it in a pocket? Be awhile though. Lots of older FBCB2 systems out there and no budget to upgrade them, so just keep churning out DAGRs for now, I suppose.

 

[plutonium233]

Forgive me for my ignorance about this subject, but what can you do with this equipment? It sounds pretty interesting. I know a good bit about amateur radio and emag, but I'm not familiar with this type of technology.

 

[emmado22]

A DAGR and a PLGR are military handheld GPS units.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

A DAGR and a PLGR are military handheld GPS units.

Right. But they integrated PLGR into a lot of wheeled/tracked weapons systems as the PPS-GPS component in installations from which they'd *never* be pulled for portable use, and when they did the PLGR ---> DAGR swapouts a lot of those systems got DAGR despite the PM GPS directive that they all have some integrated GPS solution rather than using DAGR. Bunch of info about that in older issues of 'Pathfinder' from PM GPS, LOGSA and various other places on the web.

As to the other question as to "what can you do with this technology?"...well...not much as a civvy end-user but it's sure a cool setup for display at shows in your HMMWV and for movies, and as a civvy end-user all sorts of fun for experimentation. In terms of its military use you basically get almost real-time display of Friendly and Enemy units on the screen which is aimed at decreasing the potential of fratricide (plus you get text messaging between equipped units, one-key IED reports...that sort of internet-ish thing), though in practice the 'real-time' aspect varies depending on whether you're using FBCB2-EPLRS or FBCB2-BFT (UHF terrestrial vs. 'L' band commercial satellite) -- and the two variants evidently can't use several tactical internet functions with one-another at the moment. They're transitioning towards USMC, AF and Army units all being on the same exact flavor of the FBCB2 system, but at the moment there are still evidently interconnect problems.

If I can't get an FBCB2 display I was going to make one up out of a commercially available basic 800x600 touchscreen terminal and create a web page to mimic the buttons and display of the real FBCB2 just for movies and displays. I have a bunch of the manuals so I know how it all is supposed to look/work for the most part, and already have the PLGR lookalike, HMMWV mount and various bits of cabling to hook it all together (less the AN/UYK-128 and the EPLRS transceiver or MT-2011E transceiver, sadly), so it's moving along.

 

[Spin]

Here are some pics of the common SINCGARS setups from a few years ago that I found online.

The most common SINCGARS variant my guys had was the Long Range/Long Range version, that had the 2nd external power amp that would go right where the red Gatorade bottle is. I never quite understood the Short range/Long Range version (which are pictured in the 1st and 2nd pics). I'd rather have the capability to go the distance on both nets instead of just one. The 3rd pic shows the ASIPS SINCGARS, which are 1/2 the weight of the full size, and do about 10 times as much as the full size.

What computer is that? Is a GD series?

Spin

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

What computer is that? Is a GD series?

Spin

AN/UYK-128

I think the first ones were made by Litton (don't quote me on that) whereas the current order seems to be out of DRS Technologies. They're used in a few different applications according to what I've read on the web.

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

I'm gathering one or two replies to this thread were deleted (given my mailbox says x-replies should be here...but aren't), presumably for OPSEC reasons, but...there's nothing special about the computer itself...it's just a ruggedized PC which for the most part is about a generation or so behind what you can get tomorrow at BestBuy. The OP documentation is freely available to anyone with Google, as is a description of what the FBCB2 software does and how it does it, with graphical examples given of each. It's been in production since the 90's.

I'm sure someone's picturing pulling one out of the junkyard and immediately seeing all the Blue Force deployments in Iraq or Afghanistan or what-have-you but...well...that won't happen for a number of reasons also readily apparent after reading some of the publicly-available stuff on the web.

If anyone's thinking that even asking if anyone has bits and pieces of the system available is encouraging theft of Government property or whatever -- I think that's probably a fairly broad assumption most fellow collectors wouldn't be making. Just guessing -- as the post(s) are no longer here to work with.

 

[Spin]

I have a really nice GD Itronix GOBOOK III with the GPS, WIFI, but not the BB modem/Bluetooth. It served time over in the sand box. I called Itronix, and they told me the history on it, and who bought it, and where it went. Really nice company. I am going to mount it in the HMMWV at a central station so driver is primary, and passenger secondary user. O have the vehicle dock for it too...