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Who makes the best aftermarket Air conditioner for M 1008?
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Who makes the best aftermarket Air conditioner for M 1008?
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Barrman
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I have a Nostalgia unit in mine but think a Vintage has got to be better. Here is a video I did about it:
Unfortunately I’m not sure anybody sells a complete ready to go kit for cucvs anymore, Nostalgic air has been out of stock for the cucv kit for a while now. The problem comes when trying to mount the compressor and keep both alternators as I don’t believe a 24v squarebody setup is made anymore.
You could convert to 12V and find stock 6.2 compressor brackets and adapt from there, or I’ve seen on here someone (I believe 79vette) fab a custom compressor bracket that mounts to the drivers side alt. Or switch to 12V serpentine belt and run 6.5 compressor brackets.
Once you get the compressor mounted the rest of the aftermarket kit should fit.
You could convert to 12V and find stock 6.2 compressor brackets and adapt from there, or I’ve seen on here someone (I believe 79vette) fab a custom compressor bracket that mounts to the drivers side alt. Or switch to 12V serpentine belt and run 6.5 compressor brackets.
Once you get the compressor mounted the rest of the aftermarket kit should fit.
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I have a vintage air kit in mine (1009, but the truck is the same where it matters from the firewall forward)
The compressor mounting was extremely annoying with the 24v system and I still have belt wear issues now years later.
Really the only good option is to go 12v and replace one of the alternators with factory compressor brackets, IMO. I really wanted to keep 24v and it was a huge amount of work for a system that still barely works/regularly breaks belts. I think it's because the belt length is so long relative to the pulley diameter and the diesel has such bad crank harmonics, but the v belt is always coming off the compressor and then it breaks. One time it even took out all the other belts due to wrapping broken pieces of the AC belt around the crank. Instant hydraulic and electrical failure on the highway wasn't fun... No power steering or brakes, all the alternator lights on...
Otherwise the kit is nice. Working under the dash is a pain but the install is not too hard.
The compressor mounting was extremely annoying with the 24v system and I still have belt wear issues now years later.
Really the only good option is to go 12v and replace one of the alternators with factory compressor brackets, IMO. I really wanted to keep 24v and it was a huge amount of work for a system that still barely works/regularly breaks belts. I think it's because the belt length is so long relative to the pulley diameter and the diesel has such bad crank harmonics, but the v belt is always coming off the compressor and then it breaks. One time it even took out all the other belts due to wrapping broken pieces of the AC belt around the crank. Instant hydraulic and electrical failure on the highway wasn't fun... No power steering or brakes, all the alternator lights on...
Otherwise the kit is nice. Working under the dash is a pain but the install is not too hard.
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You might find my experiences enlightening -
Kinda got carried away..... M1028 rebuild
OK I am moving forward with adding AC to my P400 / 700R4 build. After researching all available options, including retrofitting a civilian setup into my M1028, I narrowed my choice down to 2 aftermarket kits - Nostalgic Air and Vintage Air. And after researching both kits, I chose Vintage Air...
www.steelsoldiers.com
If you can find the 96+ 6.5 civy trucks accessory rack it is set up for dual alternators and AC. There is one plate that will be missing. You can cut this from 1/4 inch plate and stack up some washers or buy one from these guys.
www.willometmotorandfab.com
This is for the CS130 alternators which are not available in isolated ground. I drilled the mounting holes out so I could install plastic sleeves and use Garolite washers to isolate the alternator body for the passenger side alternator.
Adapter pigtails are available to plug into your original harness and maintain function of your Gen lights on the dash.
www.topstreetperformance.com
96-00 6.5L Diesel Dual Alternator Bracket
Designed for use on 96-2000 6.5 diesel serpentine accessory drive systems, this bracket sets the mounting points for a parallel CS130 alternator. This is a direct replacement/upgrade for the long discontinued GM bracket (PN10244209), with a few notable upgrades of my own design: TIG welded...
www.willometmotorandfab.com
This is for the CS130 alternators which are not available in isolated ground. I drilled the mounting holes out so I could install plastic sleeves and use Garolite washers to isolate the alternator body for the passenger side alternator.
Adapter pigtails are available to plug into your original harness and maintain function of your Gen lights on the dash.
GM CS130 to 10SI Alternator Wire Harness Adapter
GMCS130 to GM 10SI Adapter Cable Specifications Cable TypeAlternator Harness Adapter Alternator Case StyleGM 10SI Alternator Connector StyleGM CS130 QuantityOne
www.topstreetperformance.com
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Which 700R 4 did you use?
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Does the engine idle up when you turn AC on if so how? Do you have any suggestions for a turbo? I need an antenna mount do you know of any close to our area? Did I tell you I seen the M1007 driving through caldwell?
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Is there a need to upgrade the fan ( more blades) for the radiator cooling system
Barrman
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I will try to answer in order asked.
No, the engine does not idle up with the compressor engaged. However, it also doesn’t slow down. The injection pump has a low and high speed governor. The low speed governor pretty much maintains the idle speed regardless of the load on it. To a point.
I actually did 4 different videos about putting turbochargers on the 6.2/6.5. Here is the first turbo one:
No, I don’t think I knew I had been spotted.
The stock fan is what Chevy used on civilian 6.2 trucks with A/C. There are supposedly different fan clutches though. I went down that rabbit hole with my 1984 6.2 powered surplus USAF suburban. I couldn’t prove there was a different part number fan clutch. But, supposedly they exist.
No, the engine does not idle up with the compressor engaged. However, it also doesn’t slow down. The injection pump has a low and high speed governor. The low speed governor pretty much maintains the idle speed regardless of the load on it. To a point.
I actually did 4 different videos about putting turbochargers on the 6.2/6.5. Here is the first turbo one:
No, I don’t think I knew I had been spotted.
The stock fan is what Chevy used on civilian 6.2 trucks with A/C. There are supposedly different fan clutches though. I went down that rabbit hole with my 1984 6.2 powered surplus USAF suburban. I couldn’t prove there was a different part number fan clutch. But, supposedly they exist.
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765R4 from Bowtie Overdrives in California Bowtie Overdrives - View Item
Currently bringing in the stuff to work through this myself. I have installed 3 vintage air systems on some of my K10 projects. I picked up a CUCV and plan on adding AC using a vintage Air internal system and running a Electric compressor. The truck I bought has 2 large batteries and 2 alternators, so it squishes the conversation about too much draw on the batteries.
This vintage Air system
24v version of this with harness
Probably going to have to use some sort of relay to integrate the 2 systems as I don't care to convert over to 12v. I haven't messed around under the dash or put a meter to the block over on the driver's side but my guess is there is some 12v stuff already in the interior.
This is what the VA unit looks like from the cab to the under hood. This should be really close to being under the battery box.
This vintage Air system
24v version of this with harness
Probably going to have to use some sort of relay to integrate the 2 systems as I don't care to convert over to 12v. I haven't messed around under the dash or put a meter to the block over on the driver's side but my guess is there is some 12v stuff already in the interior.
This is what the VA unit looks like from the cab to the under hood. This should be really close to being under the battery box.
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The only things on the CUCV's that are 24V are the starter and the slave port in the grille. Everything else is 12V. You can pull 24V for your compressor off the 24V Buss located just behind the rear battery above where the VA plate attaches. Not sure how much draw the compressor will consume, but I would think two 100-amp alternators would be more than enough to supply the power. It will be important to assure both alternators are operating properly and all belts are tight. If your electric compressor plan works, it could solve a lot of problems for other owners of CUCV's who want to install A/C.Currently bringing in the stuff to work through this myself. I have installed 3 vintage air systems on some of my K10 projects. I picked up a CUCV and plan on adding AC using a vintage Air internal system and running a Electric compressor. The truck I bought has 2 large batteries and 2 alternators, so it squishes the conversation about too much draw on the batteries.
This vintage Air system
24v version of this with harness
Probably going to have to use some sort of relay to integrate the 2 systems as I don't care to convert over to 12v. I haven't messed around under the dash or put a meter to the block over on the driver's side but my guess is there is some 12v stuff already in the interior.
This is what the VA unit looks like from the cab to the under hood. This should be really close to being under the battery box.
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I would bet a Sanden 509 (compressor Vintage Air uses with their kits) takes ~5hp to run. You would need to pull 150A at 24V to get similar performance from an electric compressor.
You don't get that much power out of 2 stock CUCV alternators, but could potentially upgrade them. I'm not sure what it would take to do with an isolated ground but I think you can get 200A+ alternators in this case size.
That said I wouldn't do an electric compressor unless it was running on 400+ V in an EV/hybrid swap, but that's just my opinion. The current draw at low voltage is just too high
(Edited, I'd previously said you get 200a at 24v on a CUCV electrical system, which is wrong. It's 2x 100a alternators in series for 24v 100a. You would need 2x 12v 200a alternators to get 24v 200a, which we don't have)
You don't get that much power out of 2 stock CUCV alternators, but could potentially upgrade them. I'm not sure what it would take to do with an isolated ground but I think you can get 200A+ alternators in this case size.
That said I wouldn't do an electric compressor unless it was running on 400+ V in an EV/hybrid swap, but that's just my opinion. The current draw at low voltage is just too high
(Edited, I'd previously said you get 200a at 24v on a CUCV electrical system, which is wrong. It's 2x 100a alternators in series for 24v 100a. You would need 2x 12v 200a alternators to get 24v 200a, which we don't have)
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canadacountry
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somewhat related to a/c in here but i'll note that many 'sold as a chassis' vans in the last awhile often had a manual "high idle" pusbbutton on the dashboard which to its obvious cue holds the gas engine at over 1000 instead of around-700-or-so, sometimes its simply due to aux electrical loads but sometimes its also for due to the big a/c system needed for the large&busy interior otherwise (as a big-body 21-passenger van is not quite the same thermals as a simple factory-body 9-passenger van as much as both are using the exact same drivetrain/etc)
canadacountry
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@79Vette I had to wonder about that and rechecked, are you sure about 150a draw btw? I mean even a non-split a/c from truck/bus brands don't draw anywhere close to that much at all. webasto says that their bus-sized 14kw unit is like 12v/40a, and i can't seem to recall the right name for that other commercial/industrial company (dcairo-something) which had 24v and even 100+v units to skim over details for but i unfortunately have to go out for a bit of long time really soon tho
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I just now looked at the Ebay ad for that compressor
24v version of this with harness
and saw that at 24V the compressor requires 2600W of power to provide 850W of cooling. I'm no electrical engineer so maybe somebody will chime in with how this can be provided by two 100-amp alternators. Hope this helps.
24v version of this with harness
and saw that at 24V the compressor requires 2600W of power to provide 850W of cooling. I'm no electrical engineer so maybe somebody will chime in with how this can be provided by two 100-amp alternators. Hope this helps.
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EDIT: I looked at the link, that compressor uses 850w of power to provide 2600w of cooling. This is typical, as the coefficient of performance (COP) for a heat pump is almost always much greater than 1.
That said, 2600w is about 8800 btu/hr of cooling capacity. My vintage air system puts out 18000 btu and it's not nearly enough for my m1009. I've spent at least 15 hours of work adding dynamat and thick closed cell foam to the floors and firewall and the AC still cannot keep up if it's over 90f. I still need to insulate the roof and add ir blocking window tint, and once I do all that I think the 18000 btu will BARELY be enough.
In the smaller m1008 cab you might be ok with a ~18000 btu system with a bit less insulation
Old post where I assumed you had a 2600w electrical load:
I didn't open your link to look at the compressor, but 2600w electrical load is close what I would expect for an automotive AC compressor.
To answer your question on electrical load:
Watts = volts* amps
Therefore amps = watts / volts
2600 W / 24 V = 108 A
We have 2x 12v 100a alternators in series, which combined can produce 100a at 24v (2400w) In parallel they would produce 200a at 12v (2400w).
The alternators cannot develop maximum rated power with the engine at idle. I don't know how fast it has to be running, but I would guess at least 1200-1400 rpm. You could look up the alternator specs and do the math based on pulley size to determine what engine speed gets you full power output from the alternators but 1200-1400 RPM should be close enough.
But regardless, a 2600w load exceeds the total power generation capability of a CUCV not including any factory loads. The high beam headlamps for example are probably 20A at 12v (240w).
I would not suggest an electric AC compressor for use in a non-EV automotive application. Cars, especially antique military vehicles, are just too poorly insulated and require far too much cooling capacity for it to be effective.
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canadacountry
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just thought I'll mention this for the sake of it, turns out the name was dcairco and sure enough they do still have a lot of 24v alternator friendly single&split offerings, although I have to now note that the datasheets has been placed behind download 'logins' tho
My ebay example was just a sample. The hot rod community has really embraced the electric compressors and its picking up steam. These things have more than enough battery/alternator area to handle it. Even if you needed up upgrade the alts it's a real contender.
We are fielding solar powered air compressors on pad sites where running power to them isn't a reasonable option. If we can pull that off getting a dual alternator and dual battery setup to run an electric unit shouldn't be much of an issue. Heck, I saw where someone put then entire unit behind the fender of a Chevelle. Who knows if it works but the foundation has been laid. AS far as being enough, I have found an envelope of flatline under the carpet/headliner/door skins really helps with getting great efficiency with any AC system. Your trans tunnel is where a LOT of heat rolls in.
We are fielding solar powered air compressors on pad sites where running power to them isn't a reasonable option. If we can pull that off getting a dual alternator and dual battery setup to run an electric unit shouldn't be much of an issue. Heck, I saw where someone put then entire unit behind the fender of a Chevelle. Who knows if it works but the foundation has been laid. AS far as being enough, I have found an envelope of flatline under the carpet/headliner/door skins really helps with getting great efficiency with any AC system. Your trans tunnel is where a LOT of heat rolls in.