Why are military generators so big?

[74M35A2]

Would have to start with the criteria of which the military disposes of equipment. I'm not certain, but I believe it to be either once a specific age is reached, or once the investment of maintenance and repair has reached 50% of the initial cost of the piece of equipment, it is then disposed of via scrap or liquidation (auction). From a reliability and financial perspective, it is simply just formula based.

Separately, as a hobbiest engine rebuilder, I'm kind of picky and personally judge any piece of equipment more than 10 years old to be tired. Even if the mechanicals are within spec (leak down, etc....), gaskets and seals don't age well in oxygen and heat/cool cycles over time, before needing to be refreshed. If the engine had a rehab in less than 10 years, and low hours since, then it should be good. Then we move to the fuel pumps and voltage regulator being x years old, etc...., and we find ourself back in the above equation.

I really enjoy my M925A2, but people really get excited when I say this stuff is tired, but yes it is 25 years old (said truck). It is tired, and I'm glad it is not on our front lines advancing. So, it comes down to, why did the military not want each sold generator anymore?

 

[Daybreak]

Would have to start with the criteria of which the military disposes of equipment. I'm not certain, but I believe it to be either once a specific age is reached, or once the investment of maintenance and repair has reached 50% of the initial cost of the piece of equipment, it is then disposed of via scrap or liquidation (auction). From a reliability and financial perspective, it is simply just formula based.

Separately, as a hobbiest engine rebuilder, I'm kind of picky and personally judge any piece of equipment more than 10 years old to be tired. Even if the mechanicals are within spec (leak down, etc....), gaskets and seals don't age well in oxygen and heat/cool cycles over time, before needing to be refreshed. If the engine had a rehab in less than 10 years, and low hours since, then it should be good. Then we move to the fuel pumps and voltage regulator being x years old, etc...., and we find ourself back in the above equation.

I really enjoy my M925A2, but people really get excited when I say this stuff is tired, but yes it is 25 years old (said truck). It is tired, and I'm glad it is not on our front lines advancing. So, it comes down to, why did the military not want each sold generator anymore?

Howdy,
A MEP generator might make it to the auction because they received a new AMMP genset. Some generators have been sitting waiting to be used, and then they never are, so sell them. Not all MEP generators being sold at auction are tired and old. As a hobbiest engine builder, you would then see the real value of a tired 9000+hour generator. I noticed some tired MEP-803A 10kw generator go cheap due to hours. Break down that engine and rebuild it. Perfectly good diesel genset.

 

[dependable]

Have bought 5 MEPs from GL. I try not to bid on very high hours units or ones with damaged or missing parts. Lowest hrs was 9 on an recent 802 reset. Highest, a 002 with 1,800. Most have needed a little work, a couple needed more, but that was OK too. Having to fix something is a good way to learn it.

 

[rustystud]

Would have to start with the criteria of which the military disposes of equipment. I'm not certain, but I believe it to be either once a specific age is reached, or once the investment of maintenance and repair has reached 50% of the initial cost of the piece of equipment, it is then disposed of via scrap or liquidation (auction). From a reliability and financial perspective, it is simply just formula based.

Separately, as a hobbiest engine rebuilder, I'm kind of picky and personally judge any piece of equipment more than 10 years old to be tired. Even if the mechanicals are within spec (leak down, etc....), gaskets and seals don't age well in oxygen and heat/cool cycles over time, before needing to be refreshed. If the engine had a rehab in less than 10 years, and low hours since, then it should be good. Then we move to the fuel pumps and voltage regulator being x years old, etc...., and we find ourself back in the above equation.

I really enjoy my M925A2, but people really get excited when I say this stuff is tired, but yes it is 25 years old (said truck). It is tired, and I'm glad it is not on our front lines advancing. So, it comes down to, why did the military not want each sold generator anymore?

I asked you if you owned any MEP generators just to verify what I already guessed. You never make any helpful comments, only negative or rude statements about others generators. Your also wrong about how the military disposes of it's equipment. A brand new generator ( or any piece of equipment) can be scrapped out if the unit receives a newer piece of equipment since they are only allowed so many of any piece of gear. So if they are only allowed 3 generators and they receive 2 brand new models, they must get rid of 2 generators. They go to the main depot and if not sent out to another unit they get scrapped out even if they are brand new or recently rebuilt. So getting back to you. Since you don't even own any military gear now why do you even come on this site ? Especially if all you say is negative. You do realize that is the definition of a "troll" . Don't get me wrong, you are more then welcome here even if you don't own any military equipment, but try and make useful comments and stop all this negative crap you've been putting out lately.

 

[Isaac-1]

I own 4 MEP generators, but since most of this conversation seems to be circling around the MEP-002a, I will limit my this to talking about my MEP-002a that was bought from GL about 3 years ago. It is one with a bit of a questionable history, but did include stencil marking "major service" dated 2010, showed about 1,100 hours on the meter (if memory serves right), came with brand new fuel tank, new starter, and all new rubber hoses, what looked like new filters all around including the little ones in the electric fuel pumps. It also had a defective voltage regulator board that caused the voltage to go high after a several minutes of run time (I suspect this is may be the reason it was not ran after the major service). Overall certainly not something I would consider as old and tired, just in need of a new AVR board. Sure I would have preferred to find one of the fresh low hour depot rebuilds, but I did not pay a prime price for mine either.

Ike

 

[DieselAddict]

I agree with Mike.

If you do a search for AMMPS generators you'll see a new series of generators that are more fuel efficient than than current MEP models. I've read a few documents that indicate that the forces are transitioning over to these new generators as part of a mandate to reduce fuel consumption. I think some of the generators coming into the auction channels are warehoused machines that are being moved out to make room for the new series. Even if they are low time rebuilt machines, they have to go to make room.

This is strictly my opinion but one I think is plausible. If so that would mean there are going to be a good number of non-tired generators that make it into civilian hands over the next few years as they are replaced with the AMMPS machines.

 

[rustystud]

I agree with Mike.

If you do a search for AMMPS generators you'll see a new series of generators that are more fuel efficient than than current MEP models. I've read a few documents that indicate that the forces are transitioning over to these new generators as part of a mandate to reduce fuel consumption. I think some of the generators coming into the auction channels are warehoused machines that are being moved out to make room for the new series. Even if they are low time rebuilt machines, they have to go to make room.

This is strictly my opinion but one I think is plausible. If so that would mean there are going to be a good number of non-tired generators that make it into civilian hands over the next few years as they are replaced with the AMMPS machines.

I think you might have hit the nail on the head. I've been reading that the military has chosen to start meeting federal civilian standards on almost all their equipment and supplies. They even have gone with "eco" friendly oils.

 

[Ratch]

I'll throw my anecdotal hearsay in... I've bought many generators from the government. Some were worn out, some were like new in every way, including rubber components. It's not an accurate statement to say the military only releases tired equipment. I've seen 3 year old equipment that had never been operated released at auction (seen, didn't buy it). I wouldn't call that tired.

One thing I would definitely say about auction equipment is that it's a gamble. You could buy a dozen excellent machines, but eventually there's one with perfect specs and pictures that has some major hidden defect and turns out to be a boat anchor. I've bought at least one generator that ended up with no hope of running, and I've read of several that way.
But...I've also bought several diamonds that looked questionable. And of course a bunch of medium and needs-work units.

I don't know what the official criteria is for equipment disposal, but it's most likely bull**** in actual practice.

1. No one cares much about wasting tax payer dollars at the lower levels. We see it in government offices routinely.
2. The government overbuys routinely. Not always of stuff they need, but they will buy 600,000 bolts, use 4000, and auction off 596,000 as scrap after leaving them in a warehouse for 10 years.
3. Government employees are human, and screw up. There was some city in Florida a few years ago that bought 300 Prius's as official vehicles, then forgot about them until they went to clear a warehouse.
4. Cost is no object in protecting the homeland to some people in charge of stocking equipment and rotating stock.

I would say the most consistent thing about drmo equipment condition is that there is no consistency.
It's why a basic 50 year old cargo trailer may have an euc requirement, while a 10 year old lmtv truck may not.
Don't give the federal government too much credit when it comes to managing money and assets.

 

[Ratch]

Also, quick anecdote about a mep-016 I bought once; it was listed as having a malfunction, even showed a photo of the problem. I got it home, took it apart slightly, and found that someone had removed a piece, and stuck it inside the part I removed. Nothing was actually broken, and the part I found could only have gotten there by being removed and placed where it was. Once it was placed back where it belonged, the generator fired up and ran great with no real effort.
The generator was obviously intentionally "broken" so it could be turned in as malfunctional. Someone must have said, "we have some new quiet units, but can't give them to you until one that you have breaks."

 

[rustystud]

Also, quick anecdote about a mep-016 I bought once; it was listed as having a malfunction, even showed a photo of the problem. I got it home, took it apart slightly, and found that someone had removed a piece, and stuck it inside the part I removed. Nothing was actually broken, and the part I found could only have gotten there by being removed and placed where it was. Once it was placed back where it belonged, the generator fired up and ran great with no real effort.
The generator was obviously intentionally "broken" so it could be turned in as malfunctional. Someone must have said, "we have some new quiet units, but can't give them to you until one that you have breaks."

When I was first made "Sargent" in the Marines I was assigned to "vehicle parts procurement" for a few months. I learned a whole lot of stuff that went on that quite frankly pissed me off ! We hid parts from the inspectors and over-inflated our budgets by over 40% ! When the company commander wanted some new piece of equipment that "Alpha" company had just received I learned how to make up bogus damage receipts for our fully functional equipment. The higher in rank I got in the Marines the more I learned about the shady world of base politics. I guess it is just human nature to want to mess things up !

 

[SCSG-G4]

where older designs like the MEP-002a, MEP-003a and the various MEP-016 models are being retired in favor of quieter newer designs.

Not only quieter, but also more 'fuel efficient'. I remember reading that the generator fuel delivered to remote sites in Afghanistan cost as much as $400 a gallon by the time it was put in the generator. Ships to trucks going through Pakistan (and being blown up) to bases in the 'stan, then by armored convoy or even helicopter in some cases before it was delivered to the end user. More fuel efficient means less fuel to deliver, and less fuel to deliver means less exposure to the bad guys.

 

[turnkey]

We had 6 cyld gms for power and 3 cydl gms for 400Hz power for the satcom site....USNavy had us turn them in at 55oo hrs each..Got brand NEW REPLACEMENTS....Our GENSETS ALSO GOT OVERHAULED AT 2500 HRS ON THE METER...

 

[Keith_J]

I make a decent amount of $ rebuilding about 30 Kohler engines a year due to their weak design area(s). I'm not out to get anybody, I just didn't think telling somebody to run their generator virtually non-stop for a year is a reasonable thing to advise. Any MEP genset in civilian hands is tired anyway, by run time or age, which is why the military sold it for 10% of its initial value, just like our trucks. If they fit the buyers needs, than more "power" (get it) to them. A lot of people have a lot of good experience here, including RS, that is actually worth reading. No, I do not own an MEP. A buddy does own a -002A I have experienced. I own a 3600rpm air cooled Honda 2800W and an 1800rpm liquid cooled Kubota 5000W gensets (construction site light tower). Favorite is a Whisper Watt, but will never buy one due to cost.

My 002A came with a new engine, I went to change the oil and balls of grease came out. The grease was clean GAA in appearance. It is used to hold the governor balls in place during assembly. It also has the Onan tag on it for the re-engine contract.

I had had to overhaul the fuel tank and clean the fuel system along with fix gauges but all those are from poor short term storage. And last week, I had my first problem with it, dead batteries. 4 years old, go figure. They charged right up and it runs fine. Going to put some Continentals in it if these don't fully recharge.

I've run tested this unit at 5kW for 8 hours, also used it to power my Miller Dynasty welder in 3 phase.

 

[Keith_J]

My MEP-002A is portable! it has fork pockets and a lifting hook! HAHA! (joking)

Mine is self portable. 500 watt 24 volt DC motor driving a 2 speed riding mower transaxle and front steering axle with a draw-steer bar and directional control switch. All surplus gear I fabricated, welded and bolted together. Even got the reduction ratio about right. Low gear climbs the steepest gradient on the property, high gear is a slow walking pace.

 

[jimbo913]

I have seen it all now. Where is the seat and beverage holder

 

[Crabbie]

I asked you if you owned any MEP generators just to verify what I already guessed. You never make any helpful comments, only negative or rude statements about others generators. Your also wrong about how the military disposes of it's equipment. A brand new generator ( or any piece of equipment) can be scrapped out if the unit receives a newer piece of equipment since they are only allowed so many of any piece of gear. So if they are only allowed 3 generators and they receive 2 brand new models, they must get rid of 2 generators. They go to the main depot and if not sent out to another unit they get scrapped out even if they are brand new or recently rebuilt. So getting back to you. Since you don't even own any military gear now why do you even come on this site ? Especially if all you say is negative. You do realize that is the definition of a "troll" . Don't get me wrong, you are more then welcome here even if you don't own any military equipment, but try and make useful comments and stop all this negative crap you've been putting out lately.

And the pot calls the kettle black

 

[Isaac-1]

And the pot calls the kettle black

Huh?

 

[Keith_J]

I have seen it all now. Where is the seat and beverage holder

A redesign would be needed. My mobile MEP 02A was designed to fit through a narrow gate, 34" or so. Which means it isn't too stable. Front chicom tires are rotted after 4 years in a shed. Backs are Carslie so they should last for at least 10.

like I said, top speed is a sedate 3 mph. More than enough.

 

[Csm Davis]

Mine is self portable. 500 watt 24 volt DC motor driving a 2 speed riding mower transaxle and front steering axle with a draw-steer bar and directional control switch. All surplus gear I fabricated, welded and bolted together. Even got the reduction ratio about right. Low gear climbs the steepest gradient on the property, high gear is a slow walking pace.

We need pictures and a build thread!

 

[rustystud]

And the pot calls the kettle black

First off I own 7 MEP generators and 4 deuces. Second I try and make useful comments to help. I don't set back and "rag" on someone elses piece of equipment. If they have a problem that I can help with I usually try too. I don't go and say things like "that is a piece of crap and you should buy this other thing" . So where do "you" crabbie get off dissing me ? Or are you just another "Troll" !