Why go green?

[Buffalobwana]

I’m looking for home backup power. The 10kw units MEP 1040, or 803A

Help me understand why I want one.

I have a consumer grade 13kw, dual fuel generator. It weighs 120 lbs or so, electric start etc. it’s brand new, it works.

I understand the military units and Diesel engines hold the longevity game over a consumer grade unit.

Consumer grade - 13 Kw 120 lbs
Military - 10Kw 1100 lbs

There is a huge size/weight/price difference between the two, and I know it’s an orange to apples comparison and I’m sure they probably aren’t measuring Kw capacity the same here either.

Why do I want/need the 1040 or 803A?

 

[Jeepadict]

For starters (and I'm sure I'll be corrected) every video of a MEP-802/3 ran to load is always banked above 100%...so I just watched an 803 banked at 13kw which gauged to 120%. At home I've banked my 802 with approx 6900w that gauged 100% load.

Let's talk use and abuse. There's a reason why your Home Depot unit was cheap, that's because it is cheap...not cheap, but really cheap. And horribly noisy too. Yours was made for a homeowner or contractor to run here and there...serviced whenever...and when it breaks they expect you to throw it away and buy a new one. The MEPs were designed for combat and remote/isolated field use in the most austere areas of the world. They can be transported by any means available, fueled with almost any oil junk to be found, and generally used to take any beating the US Army can throw at it and as long as the oil is changed every 100 hours it should be this monster of a machine that will take anything that us mere mortals can throw at them. They're field serviceable...seriously quiet...make clean power...and at the end of the day I'm not aware of any commercially available unit that can even come close, tho Onan is probably the next in line with their commercial units and Onan bought the company that made the 802/3 engines before the were bought by Cummins so you're talking potential support not only from the surplus parts bouncing around but also the global leader in power production.

My high school shop teacher had a enfamous saying: "You pay for what you get, and get what you pay for...IF you're lucky". Your budget and desire for a certain quality unit is to your discretion. I know folks completely content with a contractor generator for emergency power to charge phones and run the fridge. I know folks with a medium-sized portable like you described with any of 3 or 4 different ways to power their home (there's 9 ways to skin that cat). I know folks who have a commercial/homeowner stand-alone whole-house unit controlled by automatic start and transfer switch. My backup generator was a 4k 120v RV Onan that I built out on a cart and design-built a 30A power distro box for. Many do the MEP because they worked them while in a uniform...some are like me that are part preparedness nerd and part hobbiest tinkerer...and some are homeowners getting on the popular bandwagon spending stoopid money because someone told them they run good.

At the end of the day you need to have an honest conversation with yourself. What's your budget? What are your power demands? What will your neighbors and Code Enforcement allow you to do? What fuel sources do you prefer? Do you need 3-phase power? Do you need 240v power or can 120v suffice your needs? Are you mechanically inclined to fix the machine when it breaks? Do you want spare parts? Do you enjoy the Surplus Military Vehicle hobby? Different people have different needs and every "expert" has a different opinion of what the best Swiss Army Knife is. There's lots of forums on generators of all types from technical to prepper...let Google be your friend and search around until you develop your own game plan and start taking steps to achieve it. There's a wealth of knowledge in this community forum and most guys don't mind answering the same questions over and over hahaha!

Good luck, and don't be afraid to ask questions thru your journey.

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[nextalcupfan]

I waffled about buying a home standby generator for my house, looked at Generac, Cummins, and even the cheapo harbor freight portables.
I did find what I believe to be a "comparable" quality to the MEP's in the Cummins quiet connect RS25.
1800RPM, Liquid Cooled, 12 lead generator head (I'm pretty sure that means brushless), also weights 1109 lbs.
Of course it's 25kw vs 12.5kw on the 803a (1.0 power factor) but they start around $10k, a bit steep for me.

This is the video that sold me on the MEP's vs the cheaper options.

IMO the extra money you'll spend on the 803a is worth it as you won't have to replace the electronics that the consumer generator will slowly fry. You know like your furnace control board, refrigerator main circuit board, washer/dryer circuit boards, not to mention TV's and computers.

I like the saying "Buy once cry once"

I will mention 2 downsides to my 803a.
1. I would never recommend getting one unless you're willing AND able to repair it yourself OR know someone who specifically can work on these sets.
2. I had an Ice storm last December knock out power for 25 hours, having to lug 6 gallon diesel cans to the Generator every 8-10 hours in the freezing rain/snow got real old real fast.
It was even worse because I wasn't prepared for an outage that long, so I only had enough fuel on hand for about 18 hours. I ended up having to scrounge around for every spare fuel container I had (including the red Gas ones) and had to drive to the next town over to refuel.

Other than that inconvenience being one of only 2 or 3 people in my whole town with full power made me pretty glad I had gone through the time and effort.

 

[Buffalobwana]

Wait. I thought there was 100 ways to skin a cat???

My generator is obnoxiously noisy. I bought it before the February cold front that brought massive power outages to TX and I was embarrassed to use it bc I don’t think my neighbors hate me and I want to keep it that way.

Which is why I’m looking at these units.

So the part I’m curious about is the load. I knew a big Diesel engine will outperform my propane powered unit that says 13kw, but really means 11kw on propane which means 9kw constant load ... probably.

I have a 100 gal diesel tank in my truck and another on a trailer, so, fueling isn’t an issue. Neighbors are a concern though. Can you add a muffler on these or would it change back pressure and performance?

I have seen the prices. The 1040 is at the very top, if I can land one of the lower prices units. Do I want a unit with 5 hours or one with 1000 hours? Is there a benefit to one over the other, other than price?

So, when the 1040 or similar says 10Kw, it means it. Other than longevity, what can you expect from these units? I’m not asking if I can run 15kw or more, but, I am curious what it’s practical limits are.

Thanks for the reply

 

[nextalcupfan]

10kw is the rating at 0.8 power factor. Most modern homes will be 0.9 to 0.95 pf.
The data plate on my 803a says 52 amps at 240V,
That's 12,480 watts, or 12.48 kw. (1.0 pf)
Also that's continuously, as in until you need to change the oil. (I think Guyfang posted a story where in the military they would run them at or near 100% for 3-4 weeks, would shut down to change the oil and filter. The run it for another month.)

That should be 100% on the load meter, these sets can take a 150% spike for a min or so, and 125% load for I think 15 min.

Here is my own video load testing my 803a, load amounts with time stamps are in the description.

"Neighbors are a concern though. Can you add a muffler on these or would it change back pressure and performance?"

These units already have a muffler, and a threaded exhaust so you can pipe it wherever.
I asked my neighbors during the outage and they said they had no idea it was running unless they went outside and directly looked tword my house.

 

[nextalcupfan]

I would look over this thread before even looking at a 1040.

MEP-1040, what have I gotten myself into?

So, Long story short, I threw a “pre-bid” on a 1040 over on that site where you do that sort of thing. Only issues with it was someone was nice enough to put a forklift through one mesh area and it banged around and concaved the display panel cover. They’ve been going for numbers high as a...

www.steelsoldiers.com

Honestly IMO with not being able to reliability source parts I would stay away from the 10xx series altogether.
At least for now.

 

[Buffalobwana]

I would look over this thread before even looking at a 1040.

MEP-1040, what have I gotten myself into?

So, Long story short, I threw a “pre-bid” on a 1040 over on that site where you do that sort of thing. Only issues with it was someone was nice enough to put a forklift through one mesh area and it banged around and concaved the display panel cover. They’ve been going for numbers high as a...

www.steelsoldiers.com

Honestly IMO with not being able to reliability source parts I would stay away from the 10xx series altogether.
At least for now.

Well, that’s good to know, since they are the most expensive in the 10Kw family.

 

[Buffalobwana]

10kw is the rating at 0.8 power factor. Most modern homes will be 0.9 to 0.95 pf.
The data plate on my 803a says 52 amps at 240V,
That's 12,480 watts, or 12.48 kw. (1.0 pf)
Also that's continuously, as in until you need to change the oil. (I think Guyfang posted a story where in the military they would run them at or near 100% for 3-4 weeks, would shut down to change the oil and filter. The run it for another month.)

That should be 100% on the load meter, these sets can take a 150% spike for a min or so, and 125% load for I think 15 min.

Here is my own video load testing my 803a, load amounts with time stamps are in the description.

"Neighbors are a concern though. Can you add a muffler on these or would it change back pressure and performance?"

These units already have a muffler, and a threaded exhaust so you can pipe it wherever.
I asked my neighbors during the outage and they said they had no idea it was running unless they went outside and directly looked tword my house.

Cool. Thanks for the info.

My neighbor is 20’ from me. They are cool, but I don’t want to press it. I guess an extension cord from the generator to to their house would do a lot to help tolerate the noise.

I had wondered about piping the exhaust outside a garage, but CO poisoning was a huge concern, obviously. Doesn’t take much, just a tiny leak.

It’s hard to gauge noise in a video. I take it they are pretty tolerable? I know that’s a subjective term.

 

[nextalcupfan]

Cool. Thanks for the info.

My neighbor is 20’ from me. They are cool, but I don’t want to press it. I guess an extension cord from the generator to to their house would do a lot to help tolerate the noise.

I had wondered about piping the exhaust outside a garage, but CO poisoning was a huge concern, obviously. Doesn’t take much, just a tiny leak.

It’s hard to gauge noise in a video. I take it they are pretty tolerable? I know that’s a subjective term.

The exhaust leaks, I would never run one in a house for any amount of time.

I've had conversations with people while sitting on the trailer the generator is mounted on, all I have to do is slightly raise my voice above normal.
I can install a DB meter app on my phone and get a semi-accurate measurement, but we would probably need a control of some sort.

 

[Jeepadict]

Noise comparison:

The day I bought my 802 I immediately stopped by my brother's house to get an operational crash course. It was being towed behind my 3500 Duramax idling on the street. From the side yard (75'-ish) we couldn't tell which was louder...idling Dmax or running 802.

I have a 2800 Onan Microquiet on the tongue of my baby toy hauler that's parked on the yard driveway. The night I brought my 802 home I asked my wife what she thought of the new generator noise...she told me the 802 was quieter than the 2800, we were in our bedroom.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[Buffalobwana]

Noise comparison:

The day I bought my 802 I immediately stopped by my brother's house to get an operational crash course. It was being towed behind my 3500 Duramax idling on the street. From the side yard (75'-ish) we couldn't tell which was louder...idling Dmax or running 802.

I have a 2800 Onan Microquiet on the tongue of my baby toy hauler that's parked on the yard driveway. The night I brought my 802 home I asked my wife what she thought of the new generator noise...she told me the 802 was quieter than the 2800.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Wow. That’s pretty impressive.

 

[Buffalobwana]

The exhaust leaks, I would never run one in a house for any amount of time.

I've had conversations with people while sitting on the trailer the generator is mounted on, all I have to do is slightly raise my voice above normal.
I can install a DB meter app on my phone and get a semi-accurate measurement, but we would probably need a control of some sort.

They are going to make Diesel engine noise. No way around that.

it’s not so much the noise as it is the annoyance factor. I can mitigate some of that with conversations with neighbors, and sharing some kw of energy.

 

[nextalcupfan]

Ahh I just remembered another small downside to the MEP's.
They hate being lightly loaded, after my 25 hour ice storm outage (averaged 20% load) I had to load bank it at 100% for 1-1.5 hours to burn off the wet stacking.

I attached a picture of my wet stacking after about 18 hours of low load.

MEP-803A has zero compression and lots of soot

I bought an MEP-803A a year ago with 400 hours, and it now has 900 hours. It was working fine, as far as I could tell, and then one day it would not start, and it hasn't started since. When I try to start it, there is no rumbling, the starter motor sounds like it's spinning free. A mechanic...

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[Jeepadict]

They are going to make Diesel engine noise. No way around that.

it’s not so much the noise as it is the annoyance factor. I can mitigate some of that with conversations with neighbors, and sharing some kw of energy.

flightless. runs at 1800 RPM...really not annoying to my ears and I've spent 22 years on an AF flightline...rather pleasant I believe

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[Buffalobwana]

I waffled about buying a home standby generator for my house, looked at Generac, Cummins, and even the cheapo harbor freight portables.
I did find what I believe to be a "comparable" quality to the MEP's in the Cummins quiet connect RS25.
1800RPM, Liquid Cooled, 12 lead generator head (I'm pretty sure that means brushless), also weights 1109 lbs.
Of course it's 25kw vs 12.5kw on the 803a (1.0 power factor) but they start around $10k, a bit steep for me.

This is the video that sold me on the MEP's vs the cheaper options.

IMO the extra money you'll spend on the 803a is worth it as you won't have to replace the electronics that the consumer generator will slowly fry. You know like your furnace control board, refrigerator main circuit board, washer/dryer circuit boards, not to mention TV's and computers.

I like the saying "Buy once cry once"

I will mention 2 downsides to my 803a.
1. I would never recommend getting one unless you're willing AND able to repair it yourself OR know someone who specifically can work on these sets.
2. I had an Ice storm last December knock out power for 25 hours, having to lug 6 gallon diesel cans to the Generator every 8-10 hours in the freezing rain/snow got real old real fast.
It was even worse because I wasn't prepared for an outage that long, so I only had enough fuel on hand for about 18 hours. I ended up having to scrounge around for every spare fuel container I had (including the red Gas ones) and had to drive to the next town over to refuel.

Other than that inconvenience being one of only 2 or 3 people in my whole town with full power made me pretty glad I had gone through the time and effort.

I’m handy. I can figure stuff out mechanically, but electricity is my weakness. You mention only getting one if I can work on it and fix it. What are common problems you run into?

 

[Buffalobwana]

Ahh I just remembered another small downside to the MEP's.
They hate being lightly loaded, after my 25 hour ice storm outage (averaged 20% load) I had to load bank it at 100% for 1-1.5 hours to burn off the wet stacking.

I attached a picture of my wet stacking after about 18 hours of low load.

MEP-803A has zero compression and lots of soot

I bought an MEP-803A a year ago with 400 hours, and it now has 900 hours. It was working fine, as far as I could tell, and then one day it would not start, and it hasn't started since. When I try to start it, there is no rumbling, the starter motor sounds like it's spinning free. A mechanic...

www.steelsoldiers.com

Ah, yes. I was told they like a good load on them and I’m familiar with wet stacking on Diesel engines.

If I were to use it, it would be not be difficult to run it close to 100% with AC in the summer and not hard to find 10Kw in the winter. But ... again. Good info.

 

[nextalcupfan]

I’m handy. I can figure stuff out mechanically, but electricity is my weakness. You mention only getting one if I can work on it and fix it. What are common problems you run into?

That's a tough question, will probably want others to chip in here but I know the voltage regulators are a weak point.
Fuel return lines leak.
Fuel drain and return line bungs leak (see ultimate well nut mod post).
Loose connections and rubouts are pretty common too. Also with how old these sets are getting corrosion on switches is a thing.

As for me personally if you look at the wet stacking picture I posted earlier you'll see dark stuff tword the front (left side) of the engine under the exhaust manifold.
That was 1 or 2 of the valve cover gaskets letting go during the 25 hour outage and puking oil everywhere.
I think I lost 1/2 qt in 18-24 hours.

 

[Buffalobwana]

That's a tough question, will probably want others to chip in here but I know the voltage regulators are a weak point.
Fuel return lines leak.
Fuel drain and return line bungs leak (see ultimate well nut mod post).
Loose connections and rubouts are pretty common too. Also with how old these sets are getting corrosion on switches is a thing.

As for me personally if you look at the wet stacking picture I posted earlier you'll see dark stuff tword the front (left side) of the engine under the exhaust manifold.
That was 1 or 2 of the valve cover gaskets letting go during the 25 hour outage and puking oil everywhere.
I think I lost 1/2 qt in 18-24 hours.

Ok, that’s pretty easy stuff. I have/had military trucks boats, dozers and tractors and all sorts of stuff that breaks. You just figure it out and deal with it.

You can spend $10-$15k and have a warranty, or go this route. I’m not spending $15k on a natural gas unit when gas can easily go out in natural disasters.

 

[nextalcupfan]

Ok, that’s pretty easy stuff. I have/had military trucks boats, dozers and tractors and all sorts of stuff that breaks. You just figure it out and deal with it.

You can spend $10-$15k and have a warranty, or go this route. I’m not spending $15k on a natural gas unit when gas can easily go out in natural disasters.

Yea I heard about the Natural Gas issues durning the Texas freeze, bad stuff.
Actually another one of the reasons I went diesel instead.

 

[Buffalobwana]

Yeah, in a tornado, massive fire, explosion, earthquake or other massive calamities, you know the gas will be shut off.