Why is it called "early?"

[Flatlander]

I'm confused...weren't the m35 and the m135 developed at the same time? Why is the m135 called the early deuce?

Thanks!

 

[Militoy]

The M135 (G749 family) was built between 50-55 to replace the WWII CCKW 2 ½ ton trucks. They were succeeded by the M35 (G743 family) later in the 50s, after the Korean War. So…even though there were some M35s and M135s (and maybe even a few CCKWs) in service at the same time – the 135 is the “early” deuce model.

 

[deuceman51]

That's actually not true. The m35 production started in 1951 with reo and studebaker being the main contractors of it. They might have called it the M34 still, but it was an M35 at heart. The M135 was based off the cckw with some of the parts interchanging. The army actually put the hydromatic transmission off the M135 into the M35 for testing, but they decided to stick with the manual. I'm sure David Doyle knows more about it than me.

 

[emr]

You are 100% correct, Davids Book is THEE Bible in this Business, I have worn the pages of the First standard catalog thin, and David has upgraded and improved on it with the NEW Standard Catalog the best book in the world as far as I am concerned!!, His is the one EVERYBODY should read! I have cover to cover and will do it again!And The singles were thought or known to be better off road, BUT these are CARGO trucks and sanity over came the singles, when loaded they are top heavy and proned to a roll over, Duals are for hauling cargo.And Reo is the Heros of truck design in my book. Randy

 

[stephenfeldmeier]

I’m going to give my one-cent worth of information here again, and again let’s keep it simple.
The 1st deuce as we all know and love is the CCKW – GMC. I’m going to go out on the limb here and say that it was referred to as the Jimmy, CCKW -503 or 353 and so forth, I have never seen anywhere (not saying there isn’t) to where these true WWII deuces had an identification starting with an “M”. They were 6-volt systems and I wouldn’t be surprised if they first came out with a positive ground. In WWII we did not have the time or recourses to develop vehicles that had interchangeable parts from different type vehicles, if there was, it was purely by accident, or there was no other part like it, so everybody used it.
After WWII the military started to standardize nomenclatures for the ease of inventory. Naturally when the military wanted to standardize military vehicles and wanted a replacement for the CCKW, they started with the M211, M135, M35, and so forth. If you look closely at these vehicles, you will find they are all 24 volt systems, (they all use the same light bulbs, gauges, wire connection, light assy, and the list goes on.) as in WWII, half track gauges will not fit CCKW so and so forth, so a blind man can see that inventory and supply was a night mare. Even today you can get a fuel gauge built to for today’s trucks that will fit in the M211’, M135’s, and the M35’s THE EARLY "M" SERIES TRUCKs. I don't think the pharse "The early duece" refers to just one model, and if it does it's just someone's own perference. If you look into on how the "M" series trucks started you have to group the three together, first three that were going throught the test period at the time. I’m figuring the dividing line from early deuces to the late models is when the multifuel engines came into play. Again common sense and keeping it simple, especially when your dealing with the military goes along way. I spent 20 years in the Air Force as a mechanic/Crew Chief on an AC-130 Gunship, you learn very early to keep it simple and easy.
Steve

 

[Elwenil]

As for the "early" part, I honestly think it is just a mistake people commonly make when they refer to the M211/M135 style Deuce. I know I always assumed it was an older model, mainly because of the body lines with the grille that has styling cues similar to the older CCKW. That coupled with the fact that most of us have seen M35s in use around the country and have only seen M211/M135 trucks in the hands of private collectors, it sort of lends you the notion that the M211/M135 trucks are older since they were out of production so long.

 

[acetomatoco]

Oh well, my definition of early M deuces would be gasoline engined M34/35 and M135/211..that should satisfy everybody.

 

[spicergear]

Or because one stopped production in '55 and the other in what...like '85? I don't think a debate on which had the first bolt tightened is really necessary (very informative though) when one has 30 plus years production time-

 

[acetomatoco]

Don't forget the late production of the M135 in Canada and the late M35 production by Bombardier......guess those would be foreign vehicles to most of us.

 

[Flatlander]

Thanks for the responses...I think I agree that they are termed "early" because they had a relatively short run during the advent of the M35.

I also have David Doyle's book and couldn't agree more that everyone on this site should purchase it. It's a bargain at twice the price.

 

[littlebob]

I also have David Doyle's book and couldn't agree more that everyone on this site should purchase it. It's a bargain at twice the price.

I've purchased three, after buying the first one it was missplaced and I bought two more, one for a gift and another for myself. I later found my originall and feel more comfortable knowing I have a backup.
littlebob

 

[DDoyle]

Thanks for the kind words about my book guys. I figure that this site refers to the G-749 trucks as the "early" deuce 'cause that's what Chris wanted to call it! And, it does separate them clearly from the WWII vehicles and the G-742. In fact of the matter the Reo design (G-742) predates the GMC (G-749) - a position reinforced by their Standard Nomenclature List (G-) numbers. The first G-742 dates to 1949.

I try to keep my opinion out of things, and present only the results of my research - but I will make an exception in this case. In my opinion, the GMC was doomed by GM's "we will be the sole source" position, compounded by the Korean War and the fear that it would become WWIII and defective transmissions in the first of the GMCs.

The GMC (G-749) outperformed the Reo in almost every test at Aberdeen Proving Ground. The GAO reported that the G-749 had tranny problems early in Korea, which kept the availability rate down - but the GAO also reported that this problem had been corrected before the war's end.

By then, however, Reo's body design had become standard for 6x6s, Studebaker was license-building the trucks, and Continental was license-building the engines. Just as in WWII when GMC would not license others to build the CCKW, GM wasn't going to license the G-749 - which flew in the face of the DoD's desire to have back up sources in the event of the bombing associated with a world war. All the above is documented fact - except for my opinion - which is the single sentence beginning "In my opinion...".

As someone else pointed out, I think these are percieved as being earlier because of the much shorter production period - and they don't "look" like an army truck "should" to many of us. A Reo, a M54, a 10-ton, a M809 series, and even largely the 900-series look alike - the GMC is different.

Best wishes,
David Doyle

 

[Recovry4x4]

Why is it called early? Becuase it's surely not a late deuce!

 

[Flatlander]

Thanks, David for the opinion! Seems logical to me...I bet somebody lost their job over the license refusal decision!

 

[acetomatoco]

Knowing the GM mentality... he (they) probably got promoted...Gee now we don't have to make a lot of stuff at a fixed price..and have others find out how inefficient we really are... Sell that Yellow Truck and Coach Division fast...

 

[DDoyle]

Like ACE said - I doubt there were any negative impact at GM for this position. Think about it - during WWII GM wouldn't let copies be made of its CCKW. Studebaker let their US6 be licensed - and Reo built clones. The Halftrack Group of White, Autocar and Diamond T was an example of cooperation that was for the common good as well. Willys and Ford cooperated on the Jeep. A decade later - Diamond T and IH are both building IH's 5 ton design - later to be joined by Mack. Studebaker is making a copy of Reo's 2 1/2 ton truck....and in Canada Ford was building M38A1 Jeeps.

GM took the hard line with their "all or nothing" position, and thus from the G-749 of the early 50s until the CUCV of the 80s sold no significant wheeled tactical vehicles to the military. But, kept the "monopoly" on parts for the same.

Regards,
David

 

[saddamsnightmare]

November 23rd, 2007.

Gentlemen:

As I see Mr. Doyle has weighed in on the Early/Late Duece Controversy, I was wondering where one could locate his latest Standard Reference on Military vehicles, particularly the M35A2 Kaiser-Jeep's, as I have one that had a long service history (1971-2006), and I am amazed that Uncle Sam didn't send them back for an upgrade/overhaul/mod program, as the platform does seem to work.
Thanks Again
Kyle F. McGrogan (saddamsnightmare)
1963 Swiss S404.114 Cargo
1971 Kaiser-Jeep M35A2 cargo
1961 AM General Mighty Mite M422A1 (now residing in the Philadelphia area, likely).

 

[DDoyle]

Kyle,
If you are referring to my Standard Catalog of US Military Vehciles, you can get it from me! I have only a few copies left, but they are $25.00 delivered in the US. You can contact me via email at ddoyle9570@aol.com. I am set up with Paypal, but if you prefer another payment method, drop me a note.

I have an ad in the classified on this site listing all the books I have for sale.

Thanks for your interest.

Sincerely,
David