Will this filter WMO?

[SouthTexasDiesel]

I'm working on a set-up to filter WMO for my Deuce. What I'd like to do is mount a 55 gal. drum 5' in the air with a tube coming from the bottom that runs to a valve. From the valve I would like to install a fuel filter with water separator then a premium canister oil filter, much like one that would be installed on a modern diesel. From there it would run into a clean oil drum for use.

I'm not looking for a filter system that can filter quickly, mainly I want one that I can open the valve and let it filter for a few days without needing any supervision. Total cost for this set-up would only be about $20, since I already have the drums and fuel filter/water separator.

Will this filter the oil well enough or should I replace the canister oil filter with a coffee filter element at the end?

 

[dm22630]

It will clog & slow to a drip.....a VERY slow drip.

You need pressure to push it through the filters.

 

[wreckerman893]

My system is very basic.

I cut the legs off an old pair of blue jeans and put one inside the other.

I seal the bottom and hang them from a step ladder.

I pour the oil into the top and I have an oil chage pan (the kind with the spout on it) underneath. It catches the filtered oil and I put it back in the cubies that I get it from my supplier in(after rinsing them out with laquer thinner to get out the crud).

Slow but effective...I have about 50 gals in cubies ready to be mixed 50/50 with diesel or gas.

I am working on something with more volume using some big filters I got through GL.

Pics to follow.

 

[SouthTexasDiesel]

Re: RE: Will this filter WMO?

It will clog & slow to a drip.....a VERY slow drip.

You need pressure to push it through the filters.

It wouldn't be to hard to seal the top drum and install a metal valve stem. Could connect it to my air tank and keep it at 10 psi.

What I really need to know is if this will filter the oil well enough.

 

[TommyG45]

It will work for a while, but dm is correct, you will slow to a drip until it stops. Gravity feed systems while in theory are simple and cheap, but the time trade off isn't worth it. You really shouldn't pressurize a 55 gallon drum either.

How were you planning on filling the upper 55 gallon drum ? Don’t remember the height of a drum, but that puts you high enough vertically to make it a pain to fill by hand. Say your set up when done is about 7 feet tall, now your lifting oil over your head to fill the top drum. IF your filling from 5 gallon cans, that’s roughly 40 pounds. It seems like to me the likely hood of a spill is real enough.

If your just going to filter using conventional filter / water separator, find a cheap pump, use one drum, hook the filter inline with the pump and go. Fill the drum, pump from the drum into the filter and then directly to the deuce.

Go look at McMaster Carr, they have everything you could possibly need for pumps, filters, drum accessories, hose, fittings, valves and so on.

Save yourself the mess, expense, inconvenience, and frustration. In your case, a dump, pump, and filter set up might work out well for you.

PM me if you like, I can talk you through a few options.

Tommy

 

[Barrman]

My experience with trying to use gravity to flow already filtered to 10 micron WMO/gas mix was that 1 gallon per minute through a 3/4" garden hose is a very optomistic goal. Adding a filter will stop movement and make a huge mess. Get a pump and filter set up, keep everything at ground level and the money you spend now will be made back on at most, the 4th tank of fuel you mix. That is assuming you go find the most costly stuff you can for pumps and filters. I would suggest you stock up on 55 gallon drums. Once you find a source for oil, you don't want to be telling people no. They might not offer it again.

 

[TommyG45]

Barrman makes a good point, if there is oil available and best case free, you need to be able to grab it while you can. ROI - Return on investment is quick, plus it makes the driving experience that much more fun. I ended up driving the deuce a lot more than I expected because of the smile factor - cheap fuel makes that possible.

 

[TommyG45]

Don't run the drum at any PSI, they were never designed for that, add to that the fact that they are used, have been handeled, dinged around and so on. I know people do it and will say it's fine, but think about the one that will rupture and spill out 55 gallons of oil. Think twice about that if that is part of your plan. Just my 2 cents.

Tommy

 

[SouthTexasDiesel]

I understand what yall are saying. I did find a good filter set-up at McMaster Carr, thanks for that. Can anyone recommend a good pump that isn't too expensive?

 

[wreckerman893]

I got a good pump from Northern Tool.....but I got an even better one from Tractor Supply.

Check with either of them...can prob do it on line.

 

[ARMYMAN30YearsPlus]

Would a hydraulic pump work or would the waste oil harm the impellers? I was thinking of useing a big one I have and pulling the oil post filer with the pump.

 

[joesco]

On my gravity filter setup, I am now using a magnetic block heater on my 5 gallon hopper (an old air tank) which filters the waste oil through a full paper towel roll down a 3/4" perferated holed pipe and then leeches to 5m sock into a clean 5 gallon storage container. My shop is unheated and yesterday I noticed there were about 4 gallons left to filter. I plugged in the block heater, attached it to the bottom of the hopper tank and within 25 minutes it was pee'ng into the sock filter reasonably fast. It takes about 24 hours to process this way which is fine with my needs for fuel.

BTW, I put 3 gallons of the brew in my Ford 545 3cyl diesel loader and she loved it!!! It is a mixture of kero, 2cyl gas and motor oil from a small engine repair shop. I process about 6 gallons per week.

Next week I am going to put a few gallons in my VW 1.6d Jetta. There is no doubt that both the Deuce and Loader engines are running much quieter.

 

[rwright07]

air pressure, we use 15PSI in 55 gal drums to filter oil through 3 filters, and 5 PSI to push it out to our gas tanks.

oh and they WILL hold pressure, the top and bottom will bulge permanently, but no harm done. get an inline regulator and make a series of pipe fittings that go from whatever air fitting you use to 3/4 NPT or whatever the smaller hole on the drum is.

BTW they will hold untill about 45 PSI... make sure your regulator is set up right before you walk away.... even when they start to leak cuz of too much pressure, it is a slow, non-violent type leak... the drum will not explode.

 

[jj]

Man, you are putting a lot of faith into a piece of metal that simply was not designed for pressure. And , sure, if it develops a leak the pressure will bleed slowly and maybe your regulator won't fail either, by the way, how much pressure is in your main compressor tank? I had to empty a 275gal. HHO tank some years ago. The contractor's transfer pump failed and we were on a tight schedule. I put a 3/4" hose on the bottom drain, plugged the top holes and put TWO psi of air into it. Just out of morbid curiosity i wrapped a tape measure around the middle of the tank. It grew more than an inch in circumference! Well, i got away with it, but it was a one time deal. There is no way that tank would have taken that kind of stress repeatedly. Eventually, your drums will fail. It may take years, you may get lucky for ever, but when it fails almost empty, there is alot of stored energy in 50gal of compressed air. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near it!

 

[rattlecan6104]

the us navy has air power pumps designed specifically for 55 gal drums for hazmat-water. We use them to pump the water out of an aqueus parts washer for PM's and then pump the water back in. It sounds scarry, but the drums hold just fine.

 

[jj]

But is it an air powered pump that just moves the liquid, like a diaphragm pump, or does it actually pressurize the drum? The issue i think is the pressurizing of the drum, they just aren't made for it. Anybody remember the British jet airliner that started crashing back in the 1950's? Constant pressurizing and de-prussurizing caused small fatigue cracking around the passenger windows. Sometimes the small fatigue cracking became LARGE fatigue cracking. And ALWAYS at the worst possible time. Compressed air has lots of potential energy. Go find yourself a plumbing contractor who does a lot of water heater work. Salvage some of his take-out water heaters, they don't necessarily get replaced only when they leak. Electric heaters would work best, no flue pipe like in a gas heater. Lots of 3/4"NPT fittings around the tank to screw into and they are designed to handle pressure all day.

 

[rwright07]

i understand everyones concern and appreciate it. There does not seem to be an issue as of yet.

this is not an airplane, no one dies if it fails, we just have to get a new $12 drum and dispose of an old one... if the "worst" does happen we will just make a BBQ out of the leaky drum, problem solved

 

[jj]

It isn't so much THAT the drum MIGHT fail, it is more WHAT the drum MIGHT do if it does fail. Compressed air means a lot of potential energy, the remaining oil in the drum is propellant. IF it fails, IF it fails catastrophically, IF it has the right balance of air volume and liquid to spew all over, it MIGHT make a flying projectile of considerable destructive capability. The odds are long indeed, but Mr.Murphy was a dyed-in-the wool optomist. If all of the above mentioned stars in the universe line up, rest assured you will be in the room, with your back turned, when they do. Duck and cover.

 

[TommyG45]

Ever try to clean up an oil spill ?

 

[rattlecan6104]

But is it an air powered pump that just moves the liquid, like a diaphragm pump, or does it actually pressurize the drum? The issue i think is the pressurizing of the drum, they just aren't made for it. Anybody remember the British jet airliner that started crashing back in the 1950's? Constant pressurizing and de-prussurizing caused small fatigue cracking around the passenger windows. Sometimes the small fatigue cracking became LARGE fatigue cracking. And ALWAYS at the worst possible time. Compressed air has lots of potential energy. Go find yourself a plumbing contractor who does a lot of water heater work. Salvage some of his take-out water heaters, they don't necessarily get replaced only when they leak. Electric heaters would work best, no flue pipe like in a gas heater. Lots of 3/4"NPT fittings around the tank to screw into and they are designed to handle pressure all day.

the way the system works is a hose attached to tube that reaches to nearly the bottom threads into the larger bung and the air pressure unit threads into the small bung, it forces air into the drum, pushing the liquid up the tube and out of the drum, setting it in reverse will suck fluid into the barrel through the hose and tube. The barrel flexes and makes popping and creaking sounds, you can also see the top of the drum bulge, but we have never heard of them blowing apart.