Willys MB Won't Start

[CARNAC]

Having continuing issues.

Quite awhile back the jeep just wouldn't start. Messed around with the points, condenser, and spark plugs as for gapping and replacing.

I also found a blown head gasket after I'd been messing around.

I've replaced the head gasket. Today I tried to start it and it was a no-go. Before I go further, are their any MB guys that can tell me if everything looks like it is in place?

Also, distributor wires to spark plugs are:
-bottom to front spark plug
-left one to second from front
-right one to third from front
-top one to rear
-center to coil (duh).

 

[gimpyrobb]

Did you check the glow plugs were 24v?

 

[CARNAC]

Btw, it cranks but won't start.

I don't have soldier B to do the crank while looking for a spark form coil wire and/or spark plug wires.

Gapped plugs at .030. Gapped points at .020 with cam on shoulder.

 

[CARNAC]

Did you check the glow plugs were 24v?

Wish I would have thought of that.

 

[m38inmaine]

My MB plug wires are like this, looking at the distributor from the passenger side fender, look where the ignition wire attaches to the side of the distributor, mine is at 1200. Going clockwise from the wire is #3, then #1 then #2 and last #4. With piston number #1 at top dead center the rotor button should be pointing at the #1 plug wire on the cap, this will tell you if the distributor is timed/installed correctly.

 

[CARNAC]

I checked the switch and it appears good per the ohmmeter. Connections undone and cleaned (were already clean) and put back.
Battery was charged yesterday and is still sitting at 6.36v.

Soldierette B arrived.

I have a good spark in the points.
The coil good spark from coil wire onto block.
Each spark plug wire has a good spark to the block.
Spark plugs weren't bad but I replaced them today with brand new J8C's.
I can smell fuel on cranking. Choke works.

Carb was rebuilt by Vintage Auto (think that is the name of it) up near Boston less than 2 years ago. Fuel pump ditto.

Again, it cranks but has not fired...not even a sputter.

Next will get a spritz bottle and fill it with gas and try spritzing into the carb to see if that results in anything.

Any other thoughts besides checking glowplugs like Gimp said?

If all else fails, it's getting a 10 lbs charge of C4.

 

[VPed]

Did you check for a loose nut behind the steering wheel.

Sounds like you have fuel and spark so either compression or timing are the issues. Compression issues could be due to valve adjustment since you changed the head gasket.

Turn the engine by hand until the crank timing mark is lined up with the stationary timing mark. At that point, the rotor should either be pointing directly to or exactly opposite of where the #1 wire is on the cap. The points should just be opening as well. If not at that point, your timing is off. If it is at that point, then the valves for the cylinder that the rotor is pointing to (the wire) should be closed.

Call me if you want to clarify. Call me if you want me to drop by when I get a chance. Call me if you want to proceed with the C4 route, as I would like to see that.

PS. CO of the Steel Soldier Long Range Desert Group??? What is that, or did you mean "Dessert"???

 

[CARNAC]

Call me if you want me to drop by when I get a chance. Call me if you want to proceed with the C4 route, as I would like to see that.

PS. CO of the Steel Soldier Long Range Desert Group??? What is that, or did you mean "Dessert"???

Happy Veterans Day Vic.

Yep, Yep, and only to eat dessert after all my long pilgrimages across the desert. I feel like a nomad.

I'll see what I can do reference timing but can't believe it would get that "off" to where I never even get a sputter or a cough from the engine. But right now, I'll drink gasoline and tinkle on a bonfire to try and get it running.

 

[dmetalmiki]

Simple truck simple solution. Number one plug out. (front one) Turn engine with starting handle with finger/thumb covering the hole when you feel the air pushing OUT against your pressure, Insert Wire rod down hole and turn engine SLOW on the starting handle. To "feel for the piston coming up to the (exact) top. Look at where the rotor arm is pointing. The wire it's pointing to is Number One. and going ANTICLOCKWISE the next is 3 then 4 then 2.
PRIME the carburetor with juice. Crank on the handle ( you don't have to go nuts a steady pull up should do it) and you should feel "kick" or hear it attempt to fire. If it does Prime again and crank with the starter motor. IF it now starts and then stops, its your carburetor. Report back on results. Hope it helps. You can check the cylinder pressures first if you wish by removing the plugs and cranking while thumbing each plug hole! ( if you have no tester). My 1/2 penne'th

 

[m38inmaine]

It's a flathead engine, I don't see how changing the head gasket would change the valve adjustment.

 

[1954 COE]

Carnac,
The C4 detonation event would be worth the trip alone, but if you are going throw in a drink and dance show first, I'm definitely going to show up!
No doubt, it will probably turn out to be something simple that was overlooked.

 

[CARNAC]

I'm taking a step back for a day or two.

Going to drain, clean the fuel tank. Blow out the lines but with fuel injected straight into the carb, it should have fired. Vic is probably right but just scratching my head on it.

Spark, fuel, air. It's all simple until one gets absolutely frustrated.

I did read the "Destruction to Prevent Enemy Use" section of the TM.

 

[61sleepercab]

Have you checked carb by removing air cleaner and pumping throttle by hand and observe fuel squirting inside carb bore? Stuck carb needle and seat from sitting around or dirt in fuel will stop engine from running even if you smell a hint of fumes. I had a Jeep that would run with one bowl full of gas and would then stall. Good luck Mark

 

[Amer-team]

You might also swap your condenser. This is a cheap test, probably less than 5 bucks. Fought that on the M38A1 last year. Had great knowledgeable minds look at it. Finally called Mr. Wizard, he asked if I had tried a new condenser, and that was about the only thing that hadn't been changed. Fired right up. We rebuilt the carb, new plugs, wires, points, cap, rotor, checked the distributor location, but still no go. Starts like a champ now.

 

[CARNAC]

Condenser was swapped.

I'd be happy to hear it sputter or even act like it is starting.

Based on events from the last <48 hrs, looks like I'm about to get excruciatingly busy.

 

[Amer-team]

Did it run with the old condenser? You might try putting it back in, if so. With the small electrical components, new does not necessarily mean okay. I have had this problem 3 times with jeeps. One time I had replaced with the gold plated condenser, couldn't be the condenser, I bought the gold plated one. Bought the 3 dollar one and it fired right up. Best of luck on this, the gremlins can be distracting.

 

[cruzinz28]

Hello everyone. I am now in possession of ,Carnacs MB. Picking up from where he left off here is what I have done.

I could not not get a good spark, so I replaced the points and condenser. We have great spark now.

Next we verified that the rotor button lines up with timing mark and spark plug wire #1 in the cap. It does line up.

Now out next test was compression... Here is where things don't look good.
Cylinder #1 - 40 psi
Cylinder #2 - 90 psi
Cylinder #3 - 35 psi
Cylinder #4 - 35 psi

now the million dollar question is.... why this low? TM says we should be near 110 psi.

My theory is this, and I'd like any feed back that might help...

Considering it ran and just wouldn't start back up, before the head gasket replacement, and Carnac's work that followed... I almost think the timing chain has jumped a tooth.

can anyone confirm if when the timing chain "jumps" can it cause you to loose compression on several cylinders.

Other than hank pulling the radiator and a gasket, I'm thinking this is the direction we need to go next. Once all timing variables are eliminated, then the low compression can only be caused by bad rings, valves out of adjustment or its in the new head gasket.

 

[GUNNUT in Iowa]

Please put me down for $20 on the "new head gasket".

 

[NDT]

If timing were the issue, all the cylinders would suffer low compression. Often on old engines, the valve guides will get gunked up and the valves will suddenly not seat properly.

 

[someoldmoose]

OOPS ! ! ! Shoulda read the whole thing and not skipped to the end.

Anyways, the post is still righteous and might help somebody in the future.

Get yourself a remote starter switch (any auto parts place or even H F). Then you can crank it while leaning over (NOT on) the fender while checking for spark. I suspect you know that changing the head gasket can NOT affect the valve timing on a flat-head engine unless you did something on the front of the engine that you didn't mention. The tip for finding TDC is dead on. The only things I would add is that you hafta make sure that it's TDC of compression stroke (both valves closed, old flat-head tip - bust the end off an old spark plug and remove everything but the shell that screws into the head. Find a piece of hose that fits over the shell and push it on. Screw the shell into the head. NOW, when you bar the engine over just put a digit over the end of the hose. When it doesn't "blow" your digit off it anymore, insert the wire mentioned above through the hose and shell. Finalize TDC. NOW, pull the wire and blow into the hose. If air goes in yer a full crankshaft turn offa compression stroke, or . . and I hope not, yer valves are sticking open.) only NEED to do it for cyl. # 1 for the purpose of checking rotor and cap (wires) position. If ya can't blow in, double check where the rotor is pointing, and the points should be closed, or very, very close to closed. The rotor should be pointing at a cap inside terminal. If yes to previous, install cap and follow firing order for installation of remaining wires. Put the plug back in # 1 and ya should be golden. At least as far as ignition electrical is concerned.

Do a leakdown test, or disassemble the engine and start over. That' ll NEVER fire with those numbers. Doesn't sound like a chain jump, and just a compression test won't tell ya anyway if yer tester is the "keeper" type that holds the peak (via check valve) regardless of how many times ya spin it. No disrespect to the mighty Carnac ( he knows my future ) but I am gonna go out on the "there was something wrong besides / or along with the head gasket before the repair attempt" limb.

Every no-start gets a compression test and, if low like this one, a leakdown test before ANYTHING gets replaced. If not, more often than not, ya end up throwing parts at something ya missed the first chance. Or, like the beloved Carnac, ya get frustrated and unload it. Glad that THIS time it's going to a caring home. So . . . to wrap up, DIAGNOSE COMPLETELY, then decide on course of repair. Eliminate everything that DOESN'T need fixed or replaced, . . . then fix or replace everything else. Simple right ?