Winch brake band assembly

[Tinwoodsman]

I took some reference photos when I disassembled my winch but my camera took a demp. When the brake band is reassembled does the spring go between the tabs of the brake band or between the housing and the band tab? It is hard to tell from the TM diagram.

 

[m16ty]

Between the housing and the tab.

 

[Tinwoodsman]

Thanks. Seemed like the solution but wanted to check. It is a challenging fit to get it all lined up but I will keep at it.

 

[Armada]

You already have the answer but here is a pic. Not a very clear one now that I look at it... But I guess you can see that the spring is not between the tabs.

 

[spicergear]

Or...save yourself a winch problem down the road and not put it back in- nobody will know with the cover back on and the bolt mocked up. They have a way of deciding to start making heat (grabbing) for what seems like no reason at all and could possibly cause a 3 ton pull to shear the pin from extra drag. They are of no value in these winches. I have spoken to an engineer at a MAJOR winch manufacturer who told me that the only way the winch will backspin under load is if A: the winch is worn and worm to bull gear tolerance is now out or, B:the load itself is way overloaded to the winch's rated capacity. Otherwise they are engineered to basically lock up and not allow the bull to drive the worm. The engineer stressed the amount of math and geometry in the gearsets in winches to have them work like this. After two band binds in two separate Garwood winches, I take them out and don't think twice about it nowadays.

 

[Floridianson]

Spicer Respectifully you post make it sound like you are trying to hide something. Might not be a good selling point if you sell trucks or ever want to sell trucks. I would leave it there after a good cleaning of everything and remove rust from metal. Then just leave the adjustment backed off all the way. You will see when the threads of the bolt catches and it should not produce any drag. Just make shure you get or make a good seal on the cover plate so water stays out and the rust does not start again.

 

[Hooty481]

As soon as my bolt connected to the threads it was tight... I think it is there so there is no back lash in the drive shaft.

 

[Floridianson]

The band brake is there and used when we use an A frame or use the winch for lowering a load. Yes I can see the math and the how much realy it would take to make the winch run backwards with a load but it was put there for a safty reason. How well it works in a bad case thats a wait and see. Don't forget the band brake was left loose and only tighten up and to the point it would hold the load for a short time. The amount of time /cable used in lowering is very short and in the TM's. Forgot but it is in there. Yes if it is binding when the threads just start then one might just leave the band off if you were never to use it. Just let the person who might be useing the winch or sold the truck to that the band brake is not in service.

 

[gringeltaube]

I remember having one winch (gov. rebuilt) that had new lining on, everything looked clean inside but it still was binding, most notable in reverse, even after backing the adjuster bolt all the way out. Comes out the ring was absolutely egg-shaped, once off of the wheel...! -> Bending it nice & round solved the problem.

I really see no reason to leave that part completely out....

G.

 

[spicergear]

Floridianson- I'm voicing direct experience on the Garwood 10,000 pounders and the Garwood 20,000 pound units. I'm not hiding anything even disclaiming a conversation with an engineer from a specific winch company. I winch more than a lot of people so I can say what I say without speculation.

So in saying that I shall disclaim: Do NOT do as I do. Do everything exactly as how the manuals state as they were written for a purpose by someone who was obiviously very educated on the mechanical side of how things work. Also if you are stuck, do not attempt to use your winch until someone finds you as winching alone is very dangerous.

 

[cattlerepairman]

Is there a quick way to test the band brake with the winch mounted? Both for function and for binding? I run my winch according to the TM, but I do not recall any info on that.

 

[Floridianson]

put a snatch block on a stable over head run cable up and back down to ground, pick up something heavy.
Can't rember where or what TM but it had a short explane on the load brake with pics of lowering a jeep down a hill.

 

[gringeltaube]

Is there a quick way to test the band brake with the winch mounted? Both for function and for binding? I run my winch according to the TM, but I do not recall any info on that.

From my own experience.... with everything disengaged one should be able to turn the winch drive shaft easily by hand, with very little resistance in the "winding IN" direction and slightly more effort when turning in reverse direction.


See TM 9-2320-209-20-3-4 for detailed, winch brake test & adjustment procedure, Soldier A and B ....

From that book, in Frame 9 (page 19-12):

NOTE
When correctly adjusted, the brake will become warm,​

but should not be too hot to hold brake cover with hand.

G.

 

[spicergear]

Please keep in mind that if you're pulling a low weight load and lose the shear pin, be careful not to burn your hand on the winch brake cover.

...alright, I'll be helpful... -or check to see if the shear pin hole in the yoke is egg shaped. Extra play is not a friend with an aluminum pin. Oh, also...if the pin shears (like the winch stops pulling and you can feel a lower load on the truck engine) stop the PTO asap. It's possible to heat up the yoke or grab a piece of the aluminum pin and basically imbed that into the shaft and make getting the yoke off or spun to line up a royal pain.

But only replace pin as the manual states...

 

[m16ty]

I've seen a 45,000lb wrecker rear winch spin backwards under load. We've got one mounted on the back of our KW to operate the neck on our M870. When you've got about 40,000lb on the trailer and try and raise the neck, if you stop before the neck gets up onto the truck, the winch will backspin through the worm until the trailer sets back down on the ground (we've got the brake band slacked off).

This is not a big problem though if you know it can happen and stay out of harms way. I wouldn't want to be overhead lifting without a good brake though.

 

[jatonka]

I have had myM543A2 rear draginch spin backward under severe load too. I was totally amazed. JT

 

[M543A2]

It is my experience they can spin backwards. For one experience of this I had used the 45,000 on my wrecker to tip a stump over after digging around it with a backhoe. I left the winch hooked to it and went to low-low gears to pull the stump out of the hole and over to a dump area. The winch spun backwards. Lesson learned!
Oddly enough, if the shear pin holes are egged out, probably caused by some nut putting a steel bolt in it, the pin will fail at a significantly lower load than if the hole edges in the yoke and worm shaft have nice sharp edges like a newly drilled hole. The egged holes put the pin in a bending, stretching mode as it conforms to the egged holes. This exceeds the yield strength of the metal in those places which weakens it leading to premature failure.
Regards Martin

 

[jatonka]

To clarify my 2011 post: I was pulling 1400 feet of 1" sidewall, 30" diameter PE welded pipe through a basic square concrete storm sewer that was only 4'x4'. When we got the 1st pipe through we had to pull a second one through the same sewer box, all 1400 feet under the city of Amsterdam, NY. I was on a 4 part line with the 45,000 pound drag winch with ground spades imbedded in frozen ground and giant full dual width drive on chock blocks. I could not use 4th gear ay 1100 rpms as trained. went as low as second gear at 1500 rpms. It constantly lifted the wrecker off the blocks as the pipe would hang up in the hole, then settle fast when the pipe started moving again. Guess I was really using the winch all the way. Also, the drag winch on an M543A2 uses a steel shear pin that is partly cut at 2 points where it passes from yoke to shaft and back to yoke. JT

 

[Floridianson]

The TM has the band brake not being used for loads over 3000lbs.http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?24534-M35A2-Winch-Operations