Winch Teardown Q

[Torisco]

Ok in order to provide some value to future readers, here are McMaster-Carr parts used in winch rebuilding:

Brake Adjusting Screw: 3/8-24 4" partially threaded Part# 91257A665 (pack of 10)

Brake adjusting screw O-ring (aka "preformed packaging") Part # 9452K21 (pack of 100)

Cable set-screw: 1/2-13 x 5/8" Part# 92313A709 (pack of 5)

I am going to have several extra of the above if anyone needs some.

I am in the throws of changing all the seals on a M35 front winch and making repairs. I could use two of the : O-ring, (aka preformed Packaging) part#9452K21. Be happy to send you half the price you paid for the package of 100.

Also, how did you get the sliding clutch keys off and where are you getting replacements? See attached

 

[gringeltaube]

.....................
Also, how did you get the sliding clutch keys off.........?

I do it this way....

G.

 

[JCKnife]

I'll be glad to send you a couple o-rings no chg. pm me your address. My clutch keys tapped out easily. I'm reusing them.

 

[JCKnife]

I have had this winch back together for a while now and I was getting ready to put it on the truck...but I'm noticing a problem. It seems that the sliding clutch is engaged even when the lever is in the "out" position. I can get it to disengage by pulling the lever FURTHER "out," (past the detent hole) but when the lever is at rest in the "out" detent position, the clutch is engaged.

I've taken that end off and everything looks right. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong here. Anyone dealt with this problem?

 

[m16ty]

I had a winch that was doing something similar. Mine turned out to be a twisted shift shaft I think. You couldn't tell it was twisted but the key ways where defiantly clocked different that another shaft. My solution was to weld up the detent holes in the plate and drill new ones.

Here's the thread I started about the same problem and some pics of my solution- http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/51464-winch-assembly-problem.html?highlight=winch

 

[gringeltaube]

Yes, that's typically a twisted shift shaft.

Also see this thread, starting at post #4...
... with one possible alternative to the original design, in post #12.


G.

 

[JCKnife]

Thanks guys. When I got to work today I checked my other winch (the one I have for sale) and it does not have this problem so that tells me the problem isn't my re-assembly! I have sent a message to George at White Owl to see if he has this part NOS. I see in that other thread that Memphis had them a year ago but George has been very helpful in this process and I'd prefer to give him the sale if he has the part.

 

[JCKnife]

Yep we seem to be on the right track here. G-man, my measurements relative to these photos were 13mm and 37mm. Thanks again.

 

[gringeltaube]

Well, reason enough for the (clutch)dogs to remain engaged...

So you did actually measure it before assembly but never suspected it was 8mm off...?? just wondering...


G.

 

[JCKnife]

So you did actually measure it before assembly but never suspected it was 8mm off...?? just wondering...

G.

No, I never suspected anything was wrong until I was function-testing the assembled winch by hand.

BUT...now I'm kinda stumped again. I got the shaft out and it does not appear to be twisted. See pic attached, seems to be about the right amount of offset you were describing--not quite 180°

OH--unless it's supposed to be 173° counter-clockwise from the shaft keyway?

 

[JCKnife]

This flange inside the drum is a bit bent up on the edge. This could be a contributing factor but not the whole problem I would think...

 

[JCKnife]

A replacement shaft is coming from White Owl. If it is no different George said I can return it.

 

[JCKnife]

Received the new shaft; looks the same. Wrapped in paper and made pencil rubbings of the 2 keyways: they line up identically. Now I'm stumped again.

 

[gungearz]

All manuals tell you to do useless things...

 

[Wildchild467]

If not to be found you can always make one. See dimensions below.

That wallowed hole in the clutch housing can be fixed with a short sleeve, pressed in and secured with loctite 290. No welding required and better than new!

G.

If that hole is wallowed out a little, will that make the lock less effective? On my truck the winch lock does not seem to work that well. If i pull on the cable by hand pretty good, it will skip right over the drum lock (when locked). I adjusted the lock as good as i think i could per the TM but it still does not seem to work well. I almost think it could use more spring pressure and it would be better.

 

[JCKnife]

If that hole is wallowed out a little, will that make the lock less effective? On my truck the winch lock does not seem to work that well. If i pull on the cable by hand pretty good, it will skip right over the drum lock (when locked). I adjusted the lock as good as i think i could per the TM but it still does not seem to work well. I almost think it could use more spring pressure and it would be better.

Your drum lock poppet could be rounded off or sheared--did you take it apart? That's the only way to know for sure.

 

[Wildchild467]

Yes, I took it apart before and looked at it. It did not appear to be damaged in anyway. I will have to take it apart and check the dimensions of my drum lock pin to the dimensions that G posted earlier. I think I even tried putting a spacer behind it to increase the spring pressure, but it did not work. Are the dimensions of the spring in the TM’s? I should check that and see how my spring compares. You never know what is in there until you check. Who knows what some GI could have done…

 

[gringeltaube]

Received the new shaft; looks the same. Wrapped in paper and made pencil rubbings of the 2 keyways: they line up identically. Now I'm stumped again.

It's only about 1mm on the keyway, to move 8mm up!
See drawing...

If you had access to a torch and could heat that shaft to red and twist just a bit; it is mild steel only and will go like butter! I have done it, no problem! (Of course checked for straightness and eventually correct under the press...)
So you could probably save/ use both of your shafts!

G.

 

[JCKnife]

Holy cow, amazing. Thank you again Mr. G. (and it looks like a 1mm difference at the base of the keyway, even less at the lip!)

I will install the new shaft as soon as time allows and compare.

 

[gringeltaube]

If that hole is wallowed out a little, will that make the lock less effective? On my truck the winch lock does not seem to work that well. If i pull on the cable by hand pretty good, it will skip right over the drum lock (when locked). I adjusted the lock as good as i think i could per the TM but it still does not seem to work well. I almost think it could use more spring pressure and it would be better.

Are the dimensions of the spring in the TM’s? I should check that and see how my spring compares.

FWIW: spring free length is 1.85, O.D. = 0.48, wire diam = 0.063"

Both, the tip of the lock-bolt AND the holes - at least for the NO-through-hole style drum - are tapered to 60º and the bolt only engages about 3/16” in depth. So even for NEW parts there is at least a slight chance for the bolt to jump back out of the hole, past a certain force - like if it was forgotten to pull out - and before something expensive would break!

Now if the holes look like the ones pictured (below) and/or if the tip is already rounded off - or all wear combined – it won’t take to much to turn the drum by hand with the drum lock ON… while the bolt is clicking/ jumping from one position to the next, no matter how well you adjust it

G.