Wiring Question on M1165

[thoner7]

This is all good news. A typical car stereo is 10-12 amps max. That was the only other system I was planning to run. I would be fine adding one of those Orion converters if it prevents a damaged battery (or fire) down the road. I’d rather do it right, once. But if you all say that’s overkill, I’ll skip it.

One other thing, this wire was cut during my D mil- but it’s still hot! I didn’t find a wiring diagram in the TMs. if anyone has tips on disconnecting it at the source let me know. It’s right next to the passenger seat/doghouse.

 

[Mogman]

This is all good news. A typical car stereo is 10-12 amps max. That was the only other system I was planning to run. I would be fine adding one of those Orion converters if it prevents a damaged battery (or fire) down the road. I’d rather do it right, once. But if you all say that’s overkill, I’ll skip it.

One other thing, this wire was cut during my D mil- but it’s still hot! I didn’t find a wiring diagram in the TMs. if anyone has tips on disconnecting it at the source let me know. It’s right next to the passenger seat/doghouse.

That was to feed the radios, just follow it back to the source and remove it. after disconnecting the batteries of course.

 

[HoveringHMMWV]

I too had the same problem ......

4 wire cable next to dog house

Going through my newly acquired 1123, I found a heavy duty cable coming out of the center console next to the dog house. The connector has 4 female sockets and there is a center nut to fasten the connector to the target device. Anybody know what this was connected to? Power supply to the radio...

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[thoner7]

You would need to run it through a constant duty solenoid/relay rated for the load, that is connected to a switched power source.

The Orion 70 amp 24-12 converter has a built in relay to do exactly this (and if you're pulling more than about 30 amps of 12V you should really use a converter anyway)

So for $150 bucks this orion unit doesn’t seems so bad. I found the below video of a guy installing one on a humvee. But it doesn’t seem to cut off with the ignition.

You are saying there’s a built in relay so that it’ll cut off with the switch?

 

[Mogman]

Wired as is it's going to run the batteries down.
See the instructions for optional remote on off switch.
EDIT, actually it does say you can feed switched 24V to the right side of the remote switch plug so a relay will not be needed, sorry missed that.
https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...on-isolated-2412-70A-EN-NL-FR-DE-IT-PT-ES.pdf

 

[Mogman]

If you put it in the battery box as shown you could pull switched 24V from the relay for the TCM.

 

[Coug]

So for $150 bucks this orion unit doesn’t seems so bad. I found the below video of a guy installing one on a humvee. But it doesn’t seem to cut off with the ignition.

You are saying there’s a built in relay so that it’ll cut off with the switch?

Yes, there is a built in relay
From the instruction manual (actually, this is the entire instruction manual)

Number 4 on the list below

 

[Mogman]

Those terminals have numbers or letters, they could have done a much better job than "right-hand terminal" I am assuming it is the terminal towards the inside but again they could have referenced the actual terminal designation.
We used tons of those style terminals in the SCADA equipment I used to maintain.

 

[Coug]

Should be easy enough to verify. When hooked up to power on the main lugs, one terminal will be hot, the other not.
The not hot one should be the one that gets hooked to a switched power source in the truck.

 

[thoner7]

View attachment 897904

So to have this key on/off it only needs power going into the right green terminal, which I could pull right off the ignition. And that’s it - no need for an extra fuse or anything?

 

[Mogman]

So to have this key on/off it only needs power going into the right green terminal, which I could pull right off the ignition. And that’s it - no need for an extra fuse or anything?

Yes you want to fuse the wire that is turning on and off the power to the Orion, you can tap the wire 29T for switched power to the green connector at the transmission control relay, but you definitely want to fuse it, if it shorts out in or outside of the Orion you don't want it affecting the transmission.
Unlike the video I would also put a large fuse where you take the 24V off of the power stud in the battery box, if not and the Orion fails (it is after all made in China) it could burn your truck to the ground.

 

[thoner7]

Yes you want to fuse the wire that is turning on and off the power to the Orion, you can tap the wire 29T for switched power to the green connector at the transmission control relay, but you definitely want to fuse it, if it shorts out in or outside of the Orion you don't want it affecting the transmission.
Unlike the video I would also put a large fuse where you take the 24V off of the power stud in the battery box, if not and the Orion fails (it is after all made in China) it could burn your truck to the ground.

Thank you, and everyone else, for your expertise. What size fuse would you put between the batteries and Orion? The Orion is rated at 70 amps so is 70 amps right?

I think I’ll just put the power for the relay switch off the ignition. It should be easy enough to add a wire. I think the ones at the ignition right now at 14 gauge so I assume it’s safe to match that size? Or I’ll go a size up and match whatever the jumper is on at Orion unit.

 

[Mogman]

Thank you, and everyone else, for your expertise. What size fuse would you put between the batteries and Orion? The Orion is rated at 70 amps so is 70 amps right?

I think I’ll just put the power for the relay switch off the ignition. It should be easy enough to add a wire. I think the ones at the ignition right now at 14 gauge so I assume it’s safe to match that size? Or I’ll go a size up and match whatever the jumper is on at Orion unit.

70A would probably be OK with 10ga wire that short, I would put a 50A there, not likely going to pull that much anyway. (it is correct to size the fuse to the feed wire and assumed amps used), the device is SUPPOSED to protect itself
You can run a wire to the run switch but you will still need to fuse it, even more so because you are running a much higher risk it will short out somewhere along the way, the wire I suggested is going to the same (called master start switch in the schematic above) place but it is just a few inches away from where you need it so I do not understand the want to run a wire all the way to the run switch.
The switched power wire/fuse connected to the wire #29T can be small as it should have only a 1A fuse inline.

 

[Autonomy_Lost]

Is 70A the input or output?

The fuse should be about 1.2 times the max current draw of the device, and the wire should be sized for the fuse. So assuming 70A is the input current, you're looking at around a 90A fuse and 4AWG wire minimum.

 

[Mogman]

Is 70A the input or output?

The fuse should be about 1.2 times the max current draw of the device, and the wire should be sized for the. So assuming 70A is the input current, you're looking at around a 90A fuse and 4AWG wire minimum.

70A is the 12V output current, not sure how efficient the device is. if it were 100% then the max input would be 35A but of course it cannot be 100% efficient

 

[Autonomy_Lost]

70A is the 12V output current, not sure how efficient the device is. if it were 100% then the max input would be 35A but of course it cannot be 100% efficient

Thanks for clarifying, makes sense.

 

[Coug]

it's rated for 70 amps continuous and 85 amps intermittent 12V, so 50 amp fuse on the 24V should be more than enough.

As for wiring, it's always better to go oversized than undersized, but the charts I'm seeing are saying 10 gauge should be good with a 50 or 60 amp fuse if you're only running a few feet of it. If you're going to mount it further away from the battery box, then going to 8 or 6 gauge would be better.
The wire is relatively cheap compared to any issues that might be caused by going too small trying to save a few pennies.

 

[thoner7]

You can run a wire to the run switch but you will still need to fuse it, even more so because you are running a much higher risk it will short out somewhere along the way, the wire I suggested is going to the same (called master start switch in the schematic above) place but it is just a few inches away from where you need it so I do not understand the want to run a wire all the way to the run switch.
The switched power wire/fuse connected to the wire #29T can be small as it should have only a 1A fuse inline.

I will look for the 29T wire and consider it. But I may decide to mount this box on top of the tunnel, which keeps it closer to the things I need to power, and out of the water if I ever ford that deep. Then it might make more sense to use the ignition.

When I get the chance to investigate that radio power line, I’ll see if I can use the same holes and rubber grommets. I’m undecided.

 

[Mainsail]

I'm just starting to work on mine- what a cluster fudge.

Step 2 says, "connect the minus cables to the minus terminal of the Orion". What minus cable, what minus terminal?! I'm guessing (which I hate to do with wiring) they want me to connect a wire from the center 0V lug of the Orion to ground?

What in the battery box is a good ground?

I want to connect to the bus-bar but good luck finding a ring connector that big.

I barely got started and I'm done...

 

[Mogman]

I'm just starting to work on mine- what a cluster fudge.

Step 2 says, "connect the minus cables to the minus terminal of the Orion". What minus cable, what minus terminal?! I'm guessing (which I hate to do with wiring) they want me to connect a wire from the center 0V lug of the Orion to ground?

What in the battery box is a good ground?

I want to connect to the bus-bar but good luck finding a ring connector that big.

I barely got started and I'm done...

I am sure they are talking about the negative terminal, it goes to the negative shunt mounted on the inside of the battery box, they WARN that if the negative lead fails, has a poor connection or has inadequate wire size you will over-volt the 12V side so the ground is THE most important connection.
You need big wire (10ga MIN) and the correct terminals installed with the correct tools ( I always solder them after using a hydraulic crimper on them then I seal them with gelled heat shrink.
Do it right the first time.....