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Wisconsin allegedly cancelling Military vehicle titles.

emmado22

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Thank you for the excellent, first hand, no BS, real deal account of the issue..

All others need to take note when "I heard from a buddy" situations happen. The facts are important, not all the "buddy injected, lemme add to the story" BS... Info direct from the source is the best.
 

undysworld

Member
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Blue Mounds, WI
Update - This IS involving ALL Historic Military Vehicles in Wisconsin. I have received a copy of a letter from Wis. Senator Mike Ellis to the head of the WisDOT - DMV concerning an ex U.S. Military Jeep which Wisconsin is, so far, refusing to register. The letter is dated Sept. 6, 2007, and per Mr. Ellis' assistant, it has not been resolved as of today. I have sent letters to my senator and legislative representative requesting help with my problem, but the point of my post is that it is more widespread than just Pinzgauers. I have NOT received a letter on my M35A2.
FYI
Paul
 

devilman96

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This is a pretty easy issue to fix... Some one is obviously clueless as to what the actual laws are reguarding Federal guidelines and motor vehicels... Along with their own state laws for that matter...

I woudnt panic over it... Someone is just being stoopid!
 

Westech

CPL
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cow farts, Wisconsin
o it still can be done. I got locda56's 5 ton done a year ago with little problem. Just takes a little shove in the right areas. With enough paper work anything can be done. Just if joe blow walks in with no title or government paperwork it is almost 100% imposable to get a title. You have to remember why this is happening is because of the fort mccoy problem they had. Over 15 or so years 1000's or trucks and other pieces of equipment were driven off the base and never returned. Many of them are starting to show up and people are trying to tittle them. If you have the right paperwork your still ok. but if you find one in the woods and no title... your not going anyplace unless you know someone.
 

undysworld

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Blue Mounds, WI
4 star Gen. in Madison,
You are obviously speaking with a bit of experience. Thanks for weighing in. Ft. McCoy notwithstanding, there are apparently a lot of us that either cannot register newly purchased ex-mil vehicles, or like me, have ex-mil vehicles which have been registered for years and are now being cancelled. My truck which received the cancellation is an Austrian built Steyr truck. I registered it June 27, 2002, so what's the connection to the Ft. McCoy problem there?
What's a Memorial Day paraded going to look like without any ex-mil vehicles around?
Equally important, why should out-of-state drivers have MORE priveleges on Wisconsin roads than we taxpayers? Every other state in our union allows for civilian ownership of ex-military vehicles, with various limits of course.
I am NOT suggesting we legalize driving an Abrams down the beltline, but surely non-tactical, civilain sources vehicles should be legal to own, license and drive in Wisconsin.
Just my $.02 worth.
Paul
p.s. Any chance you're familiar with D. C. Harned - ret. A.F.?
 

undysworld

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Blue Mounds, WI
David, I PM'd you but it may not have been sent properly; My Pinz is/was titled with regular "light truck" plates, with a "C" rating which in Wisconsin means maximum gross weight is 8,000 lbs. I avoided the other plates because they limit what, when, or where you could drive the truck. Although historic, I believe that my truck, along with all of my vehicles, is meant to be driven, used, and enjoyed. Farm plates are supposed to be for farm use only. Wisconsin doesn't offer any historic military licenses (at least yet). Collector plates limit you to no payload. If you want to reach me directly, undy@mhtc.net or 608 437-3465. Cheers, Paul
 

AJMBLAZER

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Hrmmmm...doubt it but since I bought my CUCV from Alfa and it's first civy title was from the cheese state would this pose any trouble to me now? Been happily titled in MI for almost a year. Actually it'll be a year in a few days.


Somehow I think Tom over at Alfa would continue to sell his stuff as titled even if WI banned all military vehicles or something draconian like that...just like he says they're all completely restored and makes them sound like they're like new...sorry, off on a tangent...[/rant off]
 

creinemann

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Johnson Creek, Wisconsin
Wisconsin Title and registration ban, letter from MVPA

Yes this is a real threat to anyone in Wisconsin who has, or is thinking of registering or titling or operating a former military vehicle on any roads in Wisconsin. Below is a copy verbatim of the letter sent by the Military Vehicle Preservation Association to all Wisconsin memebers. If you have a MV in WI you should be aware of this, and be angry! I have written my legislatures, and encourage Wisconsin members to do the same.

You can find more discussion on this, including a scanned copy of the letter WIDOT is sending out here: http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=101394

spread the word! talk to car collectors, truck truck collectors, anyone in WI that can help fight this. The policy was written on Dec 19, 2006.

Dear Wisconsin Members:

I am sorry to say that the Wisconsin Bureau of Vehicle Services has decided
to revoke titles of all historic military vehicles in the State of
Wisconsin. An MVPA member recently received notification of this
cancellation when he went to renew his plates for the following reasons:

"In order for a vehicle to be titled and registered in Wisconsin, the
vehicle must be manufactured for road use and certified by the manufacturer,
with the placement of a federal certification label on the vehicle."

"Your vehicle was manufactured to be used as a military vehicle. Wisconsin
does not issue title/registration on these types of vehicles."

"Since this vehicle wasn't manufactured for road use and doesn't meet the
equipment requirements, the department has cancelled the title."

"You license plate(s) has also been cancelled. Cancellation of your
registration privileges means any operation of this vehicle is illegal."

This decision is not based on state law or code. We have discovered that the
BVS Research and Information Unit within WIDOT made a decision to ban
historic military vehicles (HMVs) in a policy adopted by that unit in
December of 2006. Another MVPA member was refused title to his WWII jeep for
the same reasons in August. It appears they are doing this when
registrations come due or when someone wants to register and title an HMV.
They may begin to contact all HMV owners in the near future with
cancellation notices regardless of when the registration renewal date is for
your vehicle.

You and I both know that this is total BS. A small group of bureaucrats have
decided to deny you your right to operate you HMV on Wisconsin Roads.
Wisconsin State Senator Ellis, who represents the jeep owner, sent a strong
letter to Frank Busalacchi, Secretary of WI DOT on September 6 demanding an
answer as to how a Wisconsin citizen is being denied the right to register
his vehicle. To date, Secretary Busalecchi has not seen fit to answer
Senator Ellis.

Your HMV is next to lose its registration and plates. You will not be able
to re-tag your HMV because a group of government gnomes in Madison has seen
fit to take away your property rights. We all know that virtually any
vehicle built prior to 1950 does not have a federal certification label on
it. Further, who is it to state that HMVs were not manufactured for road
use? Surely not bureaucrats who have decided to hijack Wisconsin State Law
and take matters into their own hands. Are you angry yet? And the real
question is, what are you going to do about it?

The MVPA worked hard with its Kansas members two years ago when a KSDOT
bureaucrat, despite the fact that no state law or state code prevented it
from happening, deemed a Ferret not roadworthy. In Kansas, the MVPA rallied
members to immediately contact their legislators about this serious breach
of property rights by a state employee. The legislators were extremely
agitated that a bureaucrat decided to "create" state law and deny the rights
of a Kansas citizen. Ultimately, a model HMV titling and registration law
was overwhelmingly passed and placed into law by the legislature.

This plan will work in Wisconsin too, but only if all Wisconsin HMV owners
immediately contact the elected state senator or state assemblyman from
their district to protest this policy put forth by bureaucrats last
December. You can find the contact information for your representatives at:
<http>. This needs to happen NOW. A phone call and
a letter/e-mail would be appropriate. You must strongly request an answer
from your representative. Personal phone contact would be the best at this
point. Refer to the bureaucrat's decision to make your legally licensed HMV
illegal without the authority to do so.

Nearly all HMVs were designed by the military for road use, and none have
federal certification labels. Neither do most vintage vehicles such as Model
A Fords, nearly all older classic cars, street rods, and foreign-made
vehicles. This is a bogus attempt to make criminals out of patriotic
Wisconsin citizens, and for what reason?

Remember, we all own HMVs because we honor and respect the veterans who used
them to keep this country free. We drive our HMVs in parades to celebrate
our veterans' sacrifices, and we display our HMVs in a variety of programs
and events to call attention to their service and to remind fellow citizens
of our proud military heritage. When your legislators hear of this travesty
and your anger, they will join together to overturn the December 2006 BVS
policy. Then, the next step will be to introduce model legislation when they
return to the Capitol for the 2008 session. Demand an answer from your
representatives as to why this has been allowed to happen. They must hold
the BVS accountable for criminalizing citizens and taking away property
rights of Wisconsin residents.

If your representatives fail you, we will take this "to the streets" in
Madison and statewide to effect change. The MVPA will help coordinate a
statewide media and demonstration effort to get this bogus policy
overturned, and the MVPA will help introduce legislation to make certain HMV
owners will have the everlasting right to operate their vehicles on the
roads of Wisconsin.

This is not a national issue; it does no good and probably causes harm for
people from Ohio or Minnesota to begin contacting representatives. Only
Wisconsin HMV owners have a voice that will be heard in Madison. The MVPA is
very aware of the Wisconsin HMV problem and will do everything in its power
to help Wisconsin MVPA members overturn this policy and create new law to
protect our vehicles in the future.

Do not delay in contacting your representatives about this serious issue.
The time is now.

Please contact me if you have any questions or concerns or need assistance
in communicating with your representatives.

Sincerely,

John Varner

John A. Varner
MVPA Board Member
Supply Line Editor
John.varner1@gmail.com <mailto>
__________________
Carl Reinemann
Watertown, WI
 

surpdlr

Member
172
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18
Location
PA
undysworld said:
I am NOT suggesting we legalize driving an Abrams down the beltline, but surely non-tactical, civilain sources vehicles should be legal to own, license and drive in Wisconsin.
Just my $.02 worth.
Paul
So your saying all M-series vehicles should still be outlawed (being as they are defined as “tactical vehicles”)????? Along with half tracks and M8 / M20 armored cars, Ferrets, WWII jeeps and Dodges.....
The only way to handle this is the way it was done in Kansas last year, No selling out of one vehicle type for another!!!! They settled on anything that was NOT fully tracked as being licensable with Kansas antique plates, and maybe even regular plates, I’m not sure. (Not thrilled that Stewart tanks and the like got “sold out”, but you don’t see fully tracked vehicles on the road in this country very often..... Europe, where they have more freedom sometimes is another story!!)
 

undysworld

Member
493
9
18
Location
Blue Mounds, WI
Hi all, I spoke today with a staffer from Senator Jon Erpenbach's office, Mr. Robert Doeckel, who related to me that they had inquired with the DMV and were told essentially "sorry, too bad". As far as DMV is concerned, ALL em-military vehicles are non-roadworthy. I inquired about the specifics of why my Pinz should not be allowed. He didn't have specific answers. So....
I have an appointment with Mr. Doeckel and "someone from the DMV" on Monday, October 22, 2007 at 10am. Any Wisconsin Pinzgauer owners are invited and requested to attend. I promised to advise them no later than Friday night of a list of attendees. So please call/email me if you can join in. I'm at 608 437-3465 home and 608 333-8383 cell, but I don't answer the cell often. Please leave me a message if I'm not there.
Thanks for everyone's support.
Paul Underwood
Blue Mounds, Wisconsin
 

jeli

Member
414
1
18
Location
Stillwater, MN
I wonder if the next step is to ban private MV travel within Wisconsin even if it's licensed in another state. Born and breed in WI but for once glad I'm in Minnesota now.
 

undysworld

Member
493
9
18
Location
Blue Mounds, WI
Hi AJMBLAZER, Thanks, I thought about that a bit, but here's how it seems to me; Wis DMV is targeting all U.S. vehicles because they were ex-military and ex-military means non-roadworthy, to them. But I'm not sure if they are targeting Pinzes for being ex-mil or for missing some equipment, as their letter was pretty vague. If the problem is equipment, then there should be no issue because the trucks are over 25 years old and are exempt from DOT and EPA regulations, If the problem is just being ex-military, then we find that out and then we are all in this together. Then we go freakin' medieval.
I'll post the results after Monday's meeting. I would expect that it might clear up some of the guessing.
Thanks for your input and support. Paul
 
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