WMO pump question

[Varyag]

I never thought of using that pump. I just broke my hand pump I connected to a cement mixing drill after about 600 gallons. I am going to prob mimic your setup.

 

[Josh]

Those harbor freight clearwater pumps suck. I ended up using 3 of them in a series to be able to move WMO through filters. Replaced it em with a diaphram pump, and havent looked back.

 

[oddshot]

The best way to push oil through filters is probably the diaphragm pump. Just be careful to not over pressurize the filters and crush or compromise them and send dirty oil straight through them.

I'd like to do my filtering at the same time that I pick WMO up from folks.

So I kinda need "speed" in addition to a hope I have of keeping the handling of the oil to a minimum.

That being said ... I've been looking for 24 volt diaphragm pumps with sufficient pressure to push WMO through canister filters ... at a "decent" (as in "not all night") rate.

I'm looking at this pump:

Diaphragm Pump [dia24v] | DudaDiesel Biodiesel Supplies

Its 24 volts, 4.5 GPM and 40 PSI.

If the pump works like I hope ... and it holds up OK ... I think it could well be worth the $125.00.

I called the folks out there and they said they "think" this pump should get it done.

Anybody got any experience/knowledge/ or opinions about this pump?

oddshot

 

[dstang97]

Umm... there are actually two filters in that picture.
See re-attached and labeled picture.
Since that picture was taken, I've actually added a third filter strictly for water separation



More or less correct.

Filter #1 is on the suction side of the pump and filters the oil as it is drawn in and pumped into the tank. It's a 33 Micron filter and can be used as a multi-pass filter by recirculating the oil indefinitely. I set it up that way to try to keep big particles out of the pump but I don't think that's necessary if I just screen the oil before it gets sucked up.
Filter #2 is 10 micron and is single-pass as the oil goes out to the vehicle.
Filter #3 (not pictured) is 15 micron and is only being used a water separator and to maybe catch any big chunks that make it through the 10 micron.

I'm having problems keeping the pump primed when I'm sucking oil into the system, so the current plan is to redesign the system so all filters are on the pressure side but still with the recirc system between filters 1 & 2.

I think I need to get my eyes checked out.

 

[Varyag]

Its gotta be better then the hand pump I was using. If it doesn't blow up my canisters I would be fine with that.

 

[oddshot]

Its gotta be better then the hand pump I was using. If it doesn't blow up my canisters I would be fine with that.

I don't know a lot about pumps ... but my thinking is a pressure relief valve sufficient to allow enough pressure to push oil through the filter ... and return the excess to the source would take care of that.

Its another thing I'm looking into.

oddshot

 

[goldwing2000]

Those harbor freight clearwater pumps suck. I ended up using 3 of them in a series to be able to move WMO through filters. Replaced it em with a diaphram pump, and havent looked back.

Seriously?? What were you pumping... gear lube in zero degrees? Mine moves WMO through three filters just fine. I can fill my Deuce tank from 1/4 to full in about 10-15 mins or so. Even faster if I have some gas or diesel fuel in the mix.

Oddshot: that pump will probably work just fine but 4.5gpm is very slow. And if that rating is for water (which it appears to be), WMO will be even slower. And if you put a filter inline, it will be slower still.

 

[oddshot]

Oddshot: that pump will probably work just fine but 4.5gpm is very slow. And if that rating is for water (which it appears to be), WMO will be even slower. And if you put a filter inline, it will be slower still.

You are out in front of me with this one FOR SURE ... so I'm ALL EARS (which is kinda tough for a deaf guy)!

My working parameters are:

1) I want to be able to pick up WMO in the field. My thinking is that would mean 24 VDC (or gasoline engine) operation. I would MUCH prefer a 24 VDC pump.

2) I would like to filter it as I pump it into storage drums ... or directly into the truck's tank.

3) it would be pretty swell if I could keep the cost of the pump under $200 or so.

Question ... and like I said ... I'm just feelin' my way along here ...

Does 4.5 GMP equate to 270 gallons per hour?

Even if 2/3's of that were lost to a (very necessary) pressure regulator and filter/hose drag ... that would still give me 90 gallons per hour or 1.5 GPM of filtered oil ... IN THE FIELD.

I think I could live with that ... PROVIDED my conditions were met.

Obviously faster would be better ... but a gallon and a half a minute ain't too bad.

BTW .. the spec sheet on the pump indicates a wide range of fluids ... but not specifically WMO. I've check around on the 'net and most folks agree that the materials involved will stand up to petroleum products. The outfit selling it has a pretty good rep in the veggie fuel community.



Can you think of an alternative?



oddshot

 

[goldwing2000]

You are out in front of me with this one FOR SURE ... so I'm ALL EARS (which is kinda tough for a deaf guy)!

My working parameters are:

1) I want to be able to pick up WMO in the field. My thinking is that would mean 24 VDC (or gasoline engine) operation. I would MUCH prefer a 24 VDC pump.

2) I would like to filter it as I pump it into storage drums ... or directly into the truck's tank.

3) it would be pretty swell if I could keep the cost of the pump under $200 or so.

Question ... and like I said ... I'm just feelin' my way along here ...

Does 4.5 GMP equate to 270 gallons per hour?

Even if 2/3's of that were lost to a (very necessary) pressure regulator and filter/hose drag ... that would still give me 90 gallons per hour or 1.5 GPM of filtered oil ... IN THE FIELD.

I think I could live with that ... PROVIDED my conditions were met.

Obviously faster would be better ... but a gallon and a half a minute ain't too bad.

BTW .. the spec sheet on the pump indicates a wide range of fluids ... but not specifically WMO. I've check around on the 'net and most folks agree that the materials involved will stand up to petroleum products. The outfit selling it has a pretty good rep in the veggie fuel community.



Can you think of an alternative?



oddshot

Well, I'm sure that pump will handle the WMO just find but I just worry about the flow rate. I am actually still trying to figure out a mobile collection method, myself. I picked up a 24v pump from my local farm supply store that was specifically marketed as an oil pump and was rated at 10+gpm. After I bought it (for $180), I found out that it only has about a 16% duty cycle (10 minutes running, 50 minutes sitting) and the 10+gpm was rated with diesel fuel. It really craps out when pumping WMO. Plus it totally killed my batteries and I had to get pull-started in reverse.
As soon as I come up with an alternative, it's going back to the store. Right now I'm leaning towards converting an old log splitter to an oil pump. Gas engine, electric start and the pump is either an honest 8 or 11gpm. The extra weight isn't a big concern, as I'm also considering converting an M105 trailer into a permanent collection vehicle.

So, in short: don't take my recommendation as the final word, as I'm still fumbling my way along. See if that company accepts returns and try their pump out. If it works, great! Let us all know and maybe I'll buy one, too.

 

[oddshot]

Well, I'm sure that pump will handle the WMO just find but I just worry about the flow rate. I am actually still trying to figure out a mobile collection method, myself.


I picked up a 24v pump from my local farm supply store that was specifically marketed as an oil pump and was rated at 10+gpm. After I bought it (for $180), I found out that it only has about a 16% duty cycle (10 minutes running, 50 minutes sitting) and the 10+gpm was rated with diesel fuel. It really craps out when pumping WMO. Plus it totally killed my batteries and I had to get pull-started in reverse.

As soon as I come up with an alternative, it's going back to the store.

You just answered ANOTHER question that's been on my mind!!! Yeah ... I read about some of them ag/chemical pumps ... and wondered if they had the gumption to get it done.

"Duty cycle" there's something that I hadn't considered...


Right now I'm leaning towards converting an old log splitter to an oil pump. Gas engine, electric start and the pump is either an honest 8 or 11gpm.

I got a fresh built 5.5 HP, horizontal shaft Tehcumseh. Its even got a new head on it. I built it for a lawn tractor up in NJ ... and then moved to Georgia. It just didn't have the power to climb the hills in my yard so I bought a bigger machine.

The problem I have with a gas powered pump is its just one more thing I have to maintain.... and buy gasoline for .... but it IS a thought.

Doesn't Northern Tool or somebody like that sell them pumps?

HEY >>>> as I'm typing this ... a thought occurs...

I wonder what it would take to rig some type of PTO on a Deuce to power a pump ... I KNOW@ that some of these trucks have PTO's to power other stuff.

Why not a big-as*ed pump for WMO pickup/and filtering?

I'm CERTAIN that a Deuce could provide enough power to spin a log splitting ... or similar pump?

Something to think about ... and maybe do some searching up in the forums.



The extra weight isn't a big concern, as I'm also considering converting an M105 trailer into a permanent collection vehicle.

Yeah ... I save the chassis from my sacrificial M105 for similar use. A ford differential and springs ... a flat deck ... and a raised platform for the luna ring ... and viola ... a trailer low enough for an old phart like me to load and unload easily. I bought a 275 gallon tote which will easily mount on a trailer like that.



So, in short: don't take my recommendation as the final word, as I'm still fumbling my way along.

Its ALL food for thought ... and a good group effort

Like they say ... if you put a million monkeys in a room with a pump and a barrel of WMO for a million years ...

 

[Varyag]

I was going to mount the whole system on a cart because my old stand fell apart in the last fill up.
I have a 6k gas gen set that is pretty easy to put in the truck. That's what I plan on using to power it away from the house. That pool pump is multiples of cheaper compared to the 12 or 24 volt transfer pumps. Me being cheap, I will just use my generator.

Really, I do 99% of my oil work in the driveway anyway so AC is not much of an issue.

 

[Josh]

If your going to be using your deuce to pick up the oil. Running an airpump off the gladhand works good for me. Set the idle @ about 1500 and it keeps up with my pump.

 

[goldwing2000]

Its ALL food for thought ... and a good group effort

Like they say ... if you put a million monkeys in a room with a pump and a barrel of WMO for a million years ...

I think hooking up to the Deuce PTO would work... but it would be WAY overkill. Plus, depending on the pump, it may not have enough RPM. You would definitely have to pick the right pump for the application. Something Like This that's made to work off a tractor PTO would probably work. Personally, I think it would be overcomplicating the issue, though.

Your 5.5HP engine and This Pump would probably be just the ticket. I'm a big fan of the K.I.S.S. principle, so I want to find something that works, is reliable and is fast. I'm also a cheap bastard, so if I can get this old log splitter engine and pump working, then I'm only into it for about $150.

Josh: do you have a link to the air-driven pump you're using?

Varyag: If I remember correctly, I always had a hard time getting my pool pump to prime. Let us know how it works for you!

 

[oddshot]

I think hooking up to the Deuce PTO would work... but it would be WAY overkill. Plus, depending on the pump, it may not have enough RPM. You would definitely have to pick the right pump for the application. Something Like This that's made to work off a tractor PTO would probably work. Personally, I think it would be over complicating the issue, though.

Over the weekend I got in touch with Hypro about the pump you mentioned.

They tell me this pump is NOT self-priming and although its REAL close to doing the job at hand ... they recommend that a positive displacement gear pump is a better idea ... and they referred me to their sister company, Shurflo.

The Shurflo guy tells me ... yeah ... we got a pump that is self-priming and will deliver all the spec's you're looking for ... but its between $350 and $400.

He tells me the problem is with the viscosity of the crapola we are pumping. He said that a postive displacement gear pump will do the job BUT ... for reliable long life, you need a good quality pump with shafts and bearing that will stand up to the load. Otherwise you'll just be snapping shafts and burning up bearings/bushings with some regularity.

He gave me a couple other ideas ... that I gotta check out.

oddshot

 

[oddshot]

Your 5.5HP engine and This Pump would probably be just the ticket. I'm a big fan of the K.I.S.S. principle, so I want to find something that works, is reliable and is fast. I'm also a cheap bastard, so if I can get this old log splitter engine and pump working, then I'm only into it for about $150.

I'm not certain that a 2 stage pump is what's needed.

At this point I've spoken with a couple of pump guys and told them what performance/specifications I'm looking for.

If you go here ... and go to the bottom of the page ... there is a gear pump that it strong and reliable. I'm told by a couple guys the it will DEFINITELY push waste oils of various viscosity through filters at a decent rate of speed ... the shafts, gears and bearing will stand up to the use ... AND if you buy just the pump ... you can run it with a gas engine.

Our 12 volt DC waste oil pump for collection/filtration offers powerful self primeing and continuous duty operation.

$200 plus shipping. Just a *little* more then I wanted to spend ... but this one's got my attention!

oddshot

 

[goldwing2000]

Actually $225 plus $25 shipping but that's really close to perfect. Still... I already have the hydraulic pump, so I have to see if it's going to work out!

 

[dstang97]

I'm gonna get the air pump from harbor Freight

Should I use a house hold water filter like this

WVO Filtration Kit - Portable Vegetable Oil Filter for SVO Biofuel


Or This
FILTER BASES:
Source: Farmers Supply
WIX 24770 (1x14 thread, no bypass)
Price: $18.64 each

FILTERS:
There are literally tons to choose from: 30, 10 on down to 3 microns, in various dimensions and some with water separators! The 1x14 thread base lets you choose from Fram, WIX, Puralator, Luber Finer, Hastings and more. I chose the following filters and purchased them today based first on performance, then filter medium size and finally on price:

30 Micron:
Source: Farmers Supply
WIX 33367 $ 5.78 each

10 Micron:
Source: Farmers Supply
WIX 33356 $6.41 each

3 Micron with water separator:
Source: EBay
Luberfiner LFF8030 $14.99 each (shipping included)

 

['48Chevy6]

dStang,

I prefer my water block in a higher micron. (We use a 22). Then we send it through a 15 micron. Final is a 5 absolute. This allows a larger final canister that only has particulate to deal with.

The 8030 is kinda short and clogged too quick for my taste. We currently final with a lff5823b which is a couple inches longer than the 8030.

You are on the right track with triple filtering. I assume that you thin the oil before filtering?

Tim

 

[dstang97]

I haven't bought anything yet still doing research and asking questions.