Wont start - starter sounds sad?

[1987cucv]

Hi folks,

I just put in a new radiator (thanks to WWRD99 for help finding the right fittings!) and the truck died on me while bleeding the coolant system. Now it wont restart, and the starter sounds sad.

Here is a video of it trying to start:

http://imgur.com/OkkMTmi

Here's what happened:

• Installed new radiator, added flued, and started truck to bleed the system
• With the truck running, noticed a leak from the lower oil cooler line -turned off truck and fixed the leak.
• Didn't lose much oil, but checked the level and added about the same amount that was lost
• Started the truck, ran it for a while and monitored for leaks.
• Turned off the truck for a lunch break
• Came back, started the truck, and it fired up, but then died about the time I got out to the radiator
• Noticed smoke coming from the rear of the engine
• When restarting, it wouldn't fire and now the starter sounds weak.

Here's what I've checked:

• Checked the battery wiring, seems correct:

  http://imgur.com/PxIlAeW

• Checked battery voltage, 12.65v on both batteries
• Checked the glow plugs, they start at 9v and climb to 14.6v
• Investigated the smoke at the rear of the engine, its happened before but whenever it has its gone away quickly (just like this time. Thoughts on the cause:
  • Dust burning off of whatever this thing is:

    http://imgur.com/rHYpXU6

  • Duct tape on this diode (thanks snuffy )

    http://imgur.com/jFC0oH5

  • Fusable link burning up
  • Oil from my leaking passenger side valve cover (its on my list to fix! s) burning up on the starter?

    http://imgur.com/VwSwasN

I've read through the TM, but I'm at a loss. The section for "SLOW CRANKING OR UNUSUAL NOISE DURING CRANKING" is basically just checking the starter - which seems fine from what I can tell.



What should I be looking into here? Thanks fellas

 

[WWRD99]

Hi folks,

I just put in a new radiator (thanks to WWRD99 for help finding the right fittings!) and the truck died on me while bleeding the coolant system. Now it wont restart, and the starter sounds sad.

Here is a video of it trying to start:

http://imgur.com/OkkMTmi

Here's what happened:

• Installed new radiator, added flued, and started truck to bleed the system
• With the truck running, noticed a leak from the lower oil cooler line -turned off truck and fixed the leak.
• Didn't lose much oil, but checked the level and added about the same amount that was lost
• Started the truck, ran it for a while and monitored for leaks.
• Turned off the truck for a lunch break
• Came back, started the truck, and it fired up, but then died about the time I got out to the radiator
• Noticed smoke coming from the rear of the engine
• When restarting, it wouldn't fire and now the starter sounds weak.

Here's what I've checked:

• Checked the battery wiring, seems correct:

  http://imgur.com/PxIlAeW

• Checked battery voltage, 12.65v on both batteries
• Checked the glow plugs, they start at 9v and climb to 14.6v
• Investigated the smoke at the rear of the engine, its happened before but whenever it has its gone away quickly (just like this time. Thoughts on the cause:
  • Dust burning off of whatever this thing is:

    http://imgur.com/rHYpXU6

  • Duct tape on this diode (thanks snuffy )

    http://imgur.com/jFC0oH5

  • Fusable link burning up
  • Oil from my leaking passenger side valve cover (its on my list to fix! s) burning up on the starter?

    http://imgur.com/VwSwasN

I've read through the TM, but I'm at a loss. The section for "SLOW CRANKING OR UNUSUAL NOISE DURING CRANKING" is basically just checking the starter - which seems fine from what I can tell.



What should I be looking into here? Thanks fellas

Ok you hit the only thing I can think of at smoke at the back of the engine with good batteries. The main ground to the block should be right off the firewall 24 volt connections to a intake stud on the rear of the engine. You either have a bad connection or a bad cable. Repair that and see what it does.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

 

[WWRD99]

Looking at the second Pic changes things. I didn't know you had the resistor hooked up still. Most get bypassed. I'll take pic. In a minute

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[cucvrus]

Batteries are low. They may have 12 volts, but they will not pass a load test. Get them checked with a battery scan tool or an old fashion load tester that puts extreme load on them and holds the load without dropping amperage. Voltage is only the beginning. You are making problems for yourself cranking that truck with the batteries at this point. The resistors on the firewall have nothing to do with the starter cranking. I had them hooked up stock on every CUCV I owned over the past 29 years. I still use the AC Delco 13 G glow plugs. Charge the batteries separately and load test them. Always replace batteries in pairs. The weak one will always feed off the strong one and it will eventually fail. Experienced. Good Luck.

 

[1987cucv]

Batteries are low. They may have 12 volts, but they will not pass a load test. Get them checked with a battery scan tool or an old fashion load tester that puts extreme load on them and holds the load without dropping amperage. Voltage is only the beginning. You are making problems for yourself cranking that truck with the batteries at this point. The resistors on the firewall have nothing to do with the starter cranking. I had them hooked up stock on every CUCV I owned over the past 29 years. I still use the AC Delco 13 G glow plugs. Charge the batteries separately and load test them. Always replace batteries in pairs. The weak one will always feed off the strong one and it will eventually fail. Experienced. Good Luck.

I'm CONFIDENT its not the batteries. They are two months old, and it literally start and ran fine - then died and wouldn't restart. That's not a battery issue.

 

[WWRD99]

Take the output wire off the resistor and hook it up to the small end of the firewall 12 volt connection. That resistor fail and give the glows 24 volts plus they do get very hot.

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[cucvrus]

I'm CONFIDENT its not the batteries. They are two months old, and it literally start and ran fine - then died and wouldn't restart. That's not a battery issue.

OK. Game over.

 

[1987cucv]

@cucvrus ok, I'm less confident that its a battery issue after seeing smoke come out of the front battery.

http://imgur.com/pWCHHBg

Thanks for the tip.

 

[1987cucv]

@WWRD99 I've got a diode in my image, not a resistor. Are we talking about the same thing? (Love the heat shrink ends BTW, very tidy)

 

[WWRD99]

@WWRD99 I've got a diode in my image, not a resistor. Are we talking about the same thing? (Love the heat shrink ends BTW, very tidy)

I had bad connections there a while back and went nuts doing correct crimp and shrink wrap. I don't like to do that stuff 2x. I think the diode does the charging system...not 100% on that. The resistor is the big twin cylinder thing you took off the firewall. They do work...but if they fail it destroys the glow plugs. My back plan to not need one of those is to get self regulated 24 volt glow plugs. I've found a set I found just not 100% sure they won't pop. Then both batteries will work with the glow plugs instead of one. If you keep the resistor both batteries power the glow plugs...which I think is a much better way for that large load. If you're getting battery voltage at the glow plugs with them turned on with the relay it is working. They get dirty and when they get hot they smoke some. If you keep an eye on it you should be ok.

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[Barrman]

Yes, the firewall glow plug resistor can smoke during use. Here is a video about things that can go wrong with the resistor and things that can be bad if you bypass it:

I would suggest you load test both batteries. If you don’t have a tester, pull them both and take them to an auto parts store. They will test for free.

While the batteries are out, follow each and every cable. Anytime a cable gets to a connection, take it apart, wire brush or sand paper everything, put it back together and keep following the cable. I think you will find a loose or corroded connection somewhere.

You might or might not have perfect batteries. But, only testing will determine that. Never rely on a battery age as to its condition.

 

[1987cucv]

@Barrman people keep calling it a resistor - but the part in my photo is clearly a diode. Are we talking about the same thing?

 

[cucvrus]

That is a little diode that is wrapped in the tape. It has nothing to do with charging or starting. The large ballast resistors are the large cylindrical black pieces that were bolted to the firewall with 3 bolts and a heavy metal cover. You MUST load test batteries regardless of age and voltage. Amperage is the key to good batteries. Cranking that truck like you showed in the video is overheating the starter and cables. It is caused by a low amperage or possibly a bad ground. I am not there to attest to this but worked a CUCV a time or two. I played with them a minute under a few conditions. Good Luck. Leak proof seals will leak.

 

[1987cucv]

@cucvrus still not a battery problem. The batteries load tested fine. Batteries don't go from working - to straight not working in an instant.

The culprit was this short:

http://imgur.com/513urtH

That's repaired and its up and running now.

Again, not a battery issue.

 

[cucvrus]

@cucvrus still not a battery problem. The batteries load tested fine. Batteries don't go from working - to straight not working in an instant.

The culprit was this short:

http://imgur.com/513urtH

That's repaired and its up and running now.

Again, not a battery issue.

If that is the only ground you have to the engine that is the problem. You should have a large cable from the bottom negative buss bar running directly to the rear of the engine block and bolted down to a coolant cover plate stud/bolt with an M10 1.5 bolt. If you were drawing all the cranking amperage thru that small headlamp grounding cable you do have issues. I think I could fix that. I seen the smoke in your picture coming from the front battery grounding cable.

 

[WWRD99]

@Barrman people keep calling it a resistor - but the part in my photo is clearly a diode. Are we talking about the same thing?

This is the resistor. Take the wire off the right side and bolt it to the firewall connector if it goes bad. Did you find the wire going to the head? That head light ground won't support cranking the engine long.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

 

[1987cucv]

@WWRD99 @Barrman ah! That makes sense. I was thinking of the photo of the diode I took, and used to seeing resistors like on circuit boards and in electronics class. This one is... larger.

 

[1987cucv]

If that is the only ground you have to the engine that is the problem. You should have a large cable from the bottom negative buss bar running directly to the rear of the engine block and bolted down to a coolant cover plate stud/bolt with an M10 1.5 bolt. If you were drawing all the cranking amperage thru that small headlamp grounding cable you do have issues. I think I could fix that. I seen the smoke in your picture coming from the front battery grounding cable.

You maybe didn't read the part in the earlier post where I said I got it running again. Kinda wild that a person with 29 years of experience with CUCVs would just assume that there are no other grounds, like someone removed them for fun. I'm sure you've seen a lot in your time.

Thanks for your help

 

[CARC686]

Now that the issue appears to be resolved, can anybody tell me why there are hotwired cherry bomb baffles screwed to the airbox?

 

[cucvrus]

You maybe didn't read the part in the earlier post where I said I got it running again. Kinda wild that a person with 29 years of experience with CUCVs would just assume that there are no other grounds, like someone removed them for fun. I'm sure you've seen a lot in your time.

Thanks for your help

I have 40 + year's experience and that small ground that runs to the radiator core support had nothing to do with the truck not starting. I started these with no core support and the batteries ratchet strapped to plywood on the right frame rail. The radiator had a wooden mount and was held with rubber straps. I was trying too helpful nothing more nothing less. And I am kinda wild about things when someone points to a wire that has nothing to do with the engine ground unless the engine ground is loose or missing. I have seen this wire smoke in the shop when bleeding and injection pump without the main ground hood up. I always added a few extra heavy gauge grounds. I was diagnosing from afar on very limited information and seen the smoke coming from the body grounding wire. Have a Great Day my time is better spent making physical recovery.

@cucvrus still not a battery problem. The batteries load tested fine. Batteries don't go from working - to straight not working in an instant.

The culprit was this short:

http://imgur.com/513urtH

That's repaired and its up and running now.

Again, not a battery issue.

I heard a Dana 60 front axle in an M1009 was a great upgrade. I wasn't feeling fuzzy about it. Sort of awkward.
I didn't need no stinkin ground wire to get this M1009 started after setting wrecked for 10 years. It started, and I drove it around and into the garage to rebuild it.