WTK Drawbar Strength of M543A3 Wrecker

[jhooah]

Ok, the donated M543A3 is about to earn it's keep working for the local War memorial museum. They have a Prototype 155 SPG based on the old M48 Chassis components, so I can assume it's pushing 50 Tons with turret and gun. Been sitting in the same place for the last 35 years since it 'rolled' in, so I know 'it rolled when parked'
The VMPA was given an old derelict M543A3 back when I was in Afghanistan. I've painted her and got most systems running except the front winch install, and I've never tried the rear massive winch yet.
What I need to know is what's the drawbar (pulling) capacity of the M543A3 if I hooked her up to the SPG with a tank towbar.
It should be only rolling resistance, so it won't be much once broken free, but stopping her means 1st low and don't consider shifting once rolling...

Anyone know how many tons an M543A3 (or M816) Wrecker can pull? Any experience trying or doing in military or civilian application?

Appreciate any thoughts on this short pull mission moving the beast from one place to a 'final' new display area about 300 yards.
V/R WAW

Virginia Military Preservation Association
www.vmpa.us

 

[73m819]

the tm-260-10, shows max of #20,000 for the pintle on the 816, this must be for c/c, all the towed weights are 1/2 of what the 211-10 shows for highway,
strange the tm--211-10 shows #30,000, also shows that the 543 weighs # 34,690, might have a start rolling problem, but ought to be able to keep it rolling

I have both tms in front of me , hum

 

[jhooah]

What was it Scotty said when told something the Enterprise did couldn't be done according to the manual "Laddie, She never learned to read" or something like that....

I'll surely surpass that, and I know the manual is talking about 'safely' towing a load down, maybe down a flat road. Obviously not happening here...

I'm just not sure which would go first, the pintle or the u-joints.

Lets not forget that house moving companies use (ok, abuse) the M series daily in their businesses, so I know it 'can' be done, I'm just wondering how much effort she's going to have to make or if anyone has attempted bumping say an M60 monument around anywhere, etc. Really would like an M123 for it, but alas I might be able to field two wreckers (local guy with an M816 could possibly come out)

Either that or I get a D7/D8, which I don't have, nor the $$$...

V/R WAW

 

[jhooah]

Oh, just a story along these lines, I had a German Friend with a MB jeep in Germany... Once we were in Kiaserslauten at a rally riding around the ranges and saw an old German Maurder (Spelling) or French APC tracked vehicle that had been parked on a slight incline. For Fun I told him to back up to it... I hooked up a thick 2" rope to the pintle and told him to put it in 1st low, 4x4...sure enough after breaking the track free with a few tugs with spinning wheels in dirt, he was pulling it down the slope...problem was he needed to "keep" pulling it down the slope till it decided it would stop, or he would have lost a jeep.... So a few dozen yards without problem, and he was a proud owner of a jeep that could tow a around 15 tons or so.
It's a matter of overcoming the rolling resistance, and ensuring someone is ON the brakes and the slight hill we have to climb (and a curb or two I'm sure) can be overcome by the wreckers HP at that point.
V/R WAW

 

[nk14zp]

Winch it.

 

[jhooah]

I'm considering winching to break it free, but then it has to go around a corner, up a slight incline and across a former baseball field, so I'd have to move the truck about ten -fifteen times if I doubled the winch cable, etc. for the angles and all. (not that I wouldn't)

One point of concern there though is winching infers cable usage and max loads, with potential for a breakage more catastrophic than say a u-joint loss would be. So given the option, towing woud be my first preference. Remember it's on road wheels, and the treads lay it's own smooth road, so the only resistance will be the joints of the track themselves after overcoming the tonnage, and once the track is broken free once, it will roll fairly easily. Stopping would become the issue then, and winching would not have a fixed mechanical linkage to use the trucks brakes or gearing to slow it down.
Thanks V/R WAW

PS: bottom line will be FILM IT for YouTube when I do it!
WAW

 

[EMD567]

WD40 the tracks before breaking it loose. Your biggest problem will be traction between the tires of the wrecker and the ground. Go slow, and if she digs in, stop, and find more traction. I don't know what kind of surfaces you will be on. If we knew that, I am sure somebody can recommend an air pressure for the tires.

 

[jasonjc]

Start now soaking the tracks with PB Blaster. Spray them for a few days atleast. Go around it with a BFH tapping the track joints also. If the tracks don't roll I don't think the 5 ton will move it.

 

[jhooah]

I'm fairly certain the tracks are not trackpin type like a Bradley or M113, so lube and a BFH are good recommendations 9lube wouldn't help with rubber inserts and pins on the other track)
Surface will be paved asphalt adn concrete transitioning to grass (once rolling should be fine)
I'm thinking this should be fairly easy all things considered, as it would be like a tractor pull event, but the load will get easier rather than heavier once rolling.
Getting the vehicle open for a codriver to apply brakes, or a deuce with cable in the back to help stop her may be another option (traveling at less than 1-2mph here...)
V/R Winget

 

[Jones]

If you have any access to another tracked vehicle, use it.
Even a rented Cat from a yard or construction site would be better than a rubber-tired vehicle.
Far lower geared (to get the load moving), and a whole lot more ground contact area (for traction or to keep from sinking or digging in).
Sheets of THICK scrap plywood under the towed vehicle will help with cornering and getting across the grassy area(s) if they're anywhere close to soft.

 

[jhooah]

For my Money, start their M60A3 with about two hours work and move it with the my tank towbar....
I know for a fact it was not demilled as it's a War memorial museum and didn't fall under the problems presented 'before' the nut in San Diego went on a ride.
WAW

 

[wanderingwillys]

I doubt you would break anything - likey the fuse will be between the tires and the ground if you overload it.... I used mine (m543a2) in double tandem with a tired m816 and an 800 series tractor to pull out a 25ton capacity crane that was sunk into the ground after sitting a few years...

Like you say the trick is to get it moving - you can also use the front winch to give some extra umpf to the wrecker...

Take pictures

Matt

 

[TexMc]

What ever happened?

 

[135gmc]

Jones is right - use a Cat to bust it loose. If you're on pavement, the grousers will slip umless you put scrap lumber or plywood under the treads - I used to have this problem when we had to re-rail a de-railed locomotive inside the shop---when we started pulling, the drawbar force would swing the Cat directly onto the tracks that were slightly above the shop floor - we'd solve the problem by putting scrap softwood planks under the tracks. That way, the grousers would bite into the lumber, and the lumber would grab the concrete. Also remember that the drawbar capacity refers to WEIGHT, not drawbar pull.

Use a Cat - save the truck.

 

[FormerNewMVGuy]

Jones is right - use a Cat to bust it loose. If you're on pavement, the grousers will slip umless you put scrap lumber or plywood under the treads - I used to have this problem when we had to re-rail a de-railed locomotive inside the shop---when we started pulling, the drawbar force would swing the Cat directly onto the tracks that were slightly above the shop floor - we'd solve the problem by putting scrap softwood planks under the tracks. That way, the grousers would bite into the lumber, and the lumber would grab the concrete. Also remember that the drawbar capacity refers to WEIGHT, not drawbar pull.

Use a Cat - save the truck.

This is an old thread, But we hooked two 5 tons together with a towbar, and then hooked them up to a M60 tank , with a heavy towbar, and had all we could do, to move it the 400 ft we needed to go, Can you say "Wheel hop", It started to get ugly....

 

[jhooah]

Follow-Up

What ever happened?

Well the museum came up with some money and hired a crane crew to move everything without my help. Funny how getting involved with something that you can likley accomplish ends up driving them to get active and "find" the resources that were so tight before.

So it's done, the tanks and arty are moved, I didn't break a sweat. Now they are asking about blasting the old paint off and repainting. I can do this, but if some public safety guy comes by and comments about hazmat or such....

So I'm betting before I have to put any real thought into that mission they will "find" some more funds that were hidden away.

Thanks for all the comments and suggetions. I think the easiest way (funnest too) would have been to start the M60 and tow everything around with it.

Now I need to figure out how to seal the boom seal that's throwing out so much oil when it's engaged...ugh.
V/R W Winget