StrykerPez
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I was researching various laws regarding every aspect of my future ownership of a Deuce and came across this. This site is actually pretty informative.
LEGAL - Forums
LEGAL - Forums
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Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
WVO legal stuff
- Thread starter StrykerPez
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Useful, thanks for posting!
StrykerPez
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that whole site is actually pretty useful regarding WVO conversion for regular diesels.
SasquatchSanta
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I've been wondering how long it would be before this situation would come to critical mass.
After reading some of the posts on the LEGAL-Forums I see it's happening.
I worked in the Rendering industry for over 30 years --- went to their conventions and made it a point to learn as much about the business as possible.
Grease theft (yes renders considered it theft) was a big problem long before bio-diesel and I'm sure it's really bad now.
In one of the posts on the LEAGAL-Forum the poster said his barrell had been emptied by the company that usually picked up the restaurants grease and he was upset. He also said he couldn't use all the grease the restaurant was supplying and he just wanted enough for his needs. Fact is, the commercial grease hauler (rendering plant) contracts the pickup of the grease. In some instances they actually purchase the grease. It's a valuable commodity that they refine and sell or refine and make bio-diesel, The commercial grease hauler provides a rain or shine service meaning they guarantee pickup. Often times these contracts are negociated on a corporate level. What's happening here is the home brewers are getting into the pockets of the big rendering companies and they are biteing back. The rendering industry has the clout and pockets to get laws passed. This is one of the reasons that in many states, areas you have to have a permit to haul grease. The other reason is that there is a not of money in picking up grease. In the past fly by night operators have got into the business, made big messes at their collection sites and then taken the money and ran. The rendering industry is highly regulated. Those regulations will no doubt bleed over to anyone wanting to collect and haul. This isn't an easy win situation.
The last time I checked yellow grease was going for 21 cents a pound. Maybe it's time to call a local rendering plant to see what they will sell filtered, polished and centrifused yellow grease for.
I'm old and ugly and have picked up lots of bumps alone the way. What I'm trying to say is I don't scare easy. Renderers scare me.
After reading some of the posts on the LEGAL-Forums I see it's happening.
I worked in the Rendering industry for over 30 years --- went to their conventions and made it a point to learn as much about the business as possible.
Grease theft (yes renders considered it theft) was a big problem long before bio-diesel and I'm sure it's really bad now.
In one of the posts on the LEAGAL-Forum the poster said his barrell had been emptied by the company that usually picked up the restaurants grease and he was upset. He also said he couldn't use all the grease the restaurant was supplying and he just wanted enough for his needs. Fact is, the commercial grease hauler (rendering plant) contracts the pickup of the grease. In some instances they actually purchase the grease. It's a valuable commodity that they refine and sell or refine and make bio-diesel, The commercial grease hauler provides a rain or shine service meaning they guarantee pickup. Often times these contracts are negociated on a corporate level. What's happening here is the home brewers are getting into the pockets of the big rendering companies and they are biteing back. The rendering industry has the clout and pockets to get laws passed. This is one of the reasons that in many states, areas you have to have a permit to haul grease. The other reason is that there is a not of money in picking up grease. In the past fly by night operators have got into the business, made big messes at their collection sites and then taken the money and ran. The rendering industry is highly regulated. Those regulations will no doubt bleed over to anyone wanting to collect and haul. This isn't an easy win situation.
The last time I checked yellow grease was going for 21 cents a pound. Maybe it's time to call a local rendering plant to see what they will sell filtered, polished and centrifused yellow grease for.
I'm old and ugly and have picked up lots of bumps alone the way. What I'm trying to say is I don't scare easy. Renderers scare me.
ida34
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We had a BOL ( Be on the Lookout) for some guy that was stealing grease from a place in town. The estimate price in the theft report was about $2000-$3000. I think the suspect stopped as I have not heard anything else about it. I wonder if the renderer just called it theft and the officer did not know any better.
- 10,350
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- Location
- Meadows of Dan, Virginia
The restaurant pays to have the WVO removed and the renderer provides a container for the restaurant to use for the grease that it dumped in it. If the restaurant decides to dump some of the WVO into another barrel (mine), that should not be any of the renderer's business, am I wrong? At least, the restaurant that I have been working with doesn't think so.
On the other hand, removing WVO from the renderer's container is a no no, for sure, besides, that stuff is mixed with water and detergents and not easy to use....
On the other hand, removing WVO from the renderer's container is a no no, for sure, besides, that stuff is mixed with water and detergents and not easy to use....
- 10,350
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- Location
- Meadows of Dan, Virginia
True, but the restaurant pays the renderer, not the other way around and the renderer has no way of knowing how much oil is used. After the huge price increase in VO, from $13/35lb a couple of years ago to $25/35lb now, restaurants use the oil longer. Lots of variables.
SasquatchSanta
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With the price of diesel fuel (trucking) what it is it doesn't surprise me that some renders are starting to charge for picking up grease. I've heard they have also starting to charge for picking up dead stock.
One of the things that can come into play here is that the person you make an agreement with might not be aware of contractual agreements with a renderer. This is especially true with national chains. There is also the chance that the person that says it's OK to pick up grease may not have the authority to do so.
A lot of the sensitivity that renderers have has been brought on by a perception that their raw products (restaurant grease, dead stock, shop-fat and bone (butcher shop trimmings), and even offal have very little or no value. In reality, to the renderer these are all valuable commodities --- so valuable that they wait in line for years for permits to build multi million dollar plants to process the material for resale.
In the past, fly-by-night collectors have raided bins and barrels and either sold the material as is to competitor renders or, partially processed it so it would be more valuable and easier to sell. I think I mentioned it earlier, this creates a hell of a clean up mess when the fly-by-nighter elects to pull up stakes and move on. Because of the perception that the product isn't worth anything the employees at the location being raided seldom felt there was anything wrong with the raiding. In some states this got so bad that laws were passed to require there be permits to haul grease and animal parts.
I'm no attorney but my personal opinion is that even if the render is charging to pick up the product from a specific location there is a contract and the contract is for all the material. I'll bet that the fine print of the contract says "we guarantee to pick up all your material and you guarantee to supply us with all your material. I'll further bet the rate that is paid per 100 rate is based on receiving a cetain amount of material. The more the renderer receives the less the restaurant has to pay per 100 wt. This practice helps offset the price of trucking AND locks the market.
What many restaurants, butcher shops, feedlots, county governments etc don't take into consideration is that the renderer doesn't have to pick up anything unless they have a contract. This was made evident to California officials that were giving one of my old customers a hard time about the odor from dead stock they were processing (recycling) in the summer. They threatened to sue the renderer over the odor so to solve the problem the rendered stopped picking up dead stock. Within two weeks the farmers and feed lots had a problem. There were hundreds of head of summer deadstock needing immediate attention. While not as severe, a render can refuse to service a restaurant. When that happens the restaurant has a problem. If they can't find someone to pickup ALL their material. They could lose their license.
Please understand --- I'm not anti bio-diesel home brewer. I also know that this is frustrating. The only reason that I've gone into so much detail in this is so you can understand where the commercial collector is coming from.
The company I worked for (sold for) is a world leader in bio-diesel processing equipment. Many of the renderers, either directly or indirectly, are doing the same thing you are doing. They are just doing it on a much larger scale and they have jumped through all the hoops for licensing and processing (renderers are licensed) policing. It's big business.
Having said all this, no doubt there are restaurants that renderers aren't servicing or don't have under contract.
One of the things that can come into play here is that the person you make an agreement with might not be aware of contractual agreements with a renderer. This is especially true with national chains. There is also the chance that the person that says it's OK to pick up grease may not have the authority to do so.
A lot of the sensitivity that renderers have has been brought on by a perception that their raw products (restaurant grease, dead stock, shop-fat and bone (butcher shop trimmings), and even offal have very little or no value. In reality, to the renderer these are all valuable commodities --- so valuable that they wait in line for years for permits to build multi million dollar plants to process the material for resale.
In the past, fly-by-night collectors have raided bins and barrels and either sold the material as is to competitor renders or, partially processed it so it would be more valuable and easier to sell. I think I mentioned it earlier, this creates a hell of a clean up mess when the fly-by-nighter elects to pull up stakes and move on. Because of the perception that the product isn't worth anything the employees at the location being raided seldom felt there was anything wrong with the raiding. In some states this got so bad that laws were passed to require there be permits to haul grease and animal parts.
I'm no attorney but my personal opinion is that even if the render is charging to pick up the product from a specific location there is a contract and the contract is for all the material. I'll bet that the fine print of the contract says "we guarantee to pick up all your material and you guarantee to supply us with all your material. I'll further bet the rate that is paid per 100 rate is based on receiving a cetain amount of material. The more the renderer receives the less the restaurant has to pay per 100 wt. This practice helps offset the price of trucking AND locks the market.
What many restaurants, butcher shops, feedlots, county governments etc don't take into consideration is that the renderer doesn't have to pick up anything unless they have a contract. This was made evident to California officials that were giving one of my old customers a hard time about the odor from dead stock they were processing (recycling) in the summer. They threatened to sue the renderer over the odor so to solve the problem the rendered stopped picking up dead stock. Within two weeks the farmers and feed lots had a problem. There were hundreds of head of summer deadstock needing immediate attention. While not as severe, a render can refuse to service a restaurant. When that happens the restaurant has a problem. If they can't find someone to pickup ALL their material. They could lose their license.
Please understand --- I'm not anti bio-diesel home brewer. I also know that this is frustrating. The only reason that I've gone into so much detail in this is so you can understand where the commercial collector is coming from.
The company I worked for (sold for) is a world leader in bio-diesel processing equipment. Many of the renderers, either directly or indirectly, are doing the same thing you are doing. They are just doing it on a much larger scale and they have jumped through all the hoops for licensing and processing (renderers are licensed) policing. It's big business.
Having said all this, no doubt there are restaurants that renderers aren't servicing or don't have under contract.
Sumoman
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Simply ask. I have already spoken with the management from a few oil change places as well as some eateries. None of them had a issue with allowing me to take 55 gallons here and there. Plus look into the cities you live in, more then likely the contract once the container is full and even a small city goes through a bunch.