XM757 Transmission fluid and filter

[cranetruck]

The manual specifies a transmission fluid filter, AC PF-133-1 and the fluid as Type C2 MIL-L-2104 for the Allison TX200-6.
The best I can do with Google is an AC filter PF1331, but it is not an "element" type it's a spin on, which will not work.
For the fluid, I get Dexron III or type C3. Is that the same as MIL-L-2104?

Is there a commercial cross for the fluid and filter?

Thanks, meanwhile I'll keep looking.

 

[Hookin1]

Bjorn look here on page 19 in the left side column this may help you.....it's in pdf format

http://www.hastingsfilter.com/lit/f476.pdf

 

[Hookin1]

okay i found it with help from the auto parts guru(my wife)........in a wix filter your number is......hold on the suspense is killing me...just kidding

51137 wix
85137 carquest
5137 napa??????

 

[cranetruck]

Thanks Lance.
I'm investigating the transmission fluid spec, the LO calls for "OE"....

 

[Elwenil]

Check out page 3 of this: http://www.allisontransmission.com/servlet/DownloadOnDemand?ApplicationID=172&DownloadID=13

It says that C-4 is NOT the same, so there goes anything common. Searching the MIL-L-2104 keeps taking me to light engine oil for some reason, if that is possible? Still looking. I've had decent luck finding Mil Spec fluids in the past but I'm limited by our ridiculous "security" on the computers here at work.

 

[Elwenil]

Hmmm, perhaps it is engine oil. Check out this chart on the Rotella site:

http://www.rotella.com/products/rotella_t_single.html

That should be fairly accurate, Rotella has always been a trustworthy name in commercial truck fluids.

 

[DDoyle]

The G-749 series vehicles (M135/211) were also equipped with an automatic transmission, and also used OE for the fluid. Be sure and read the complete manual, as the viscosity varied with operating conditions, a detail omitted from the lube order and data plate in the case of the G-749.

The reason was purely logistics - adding transmission fluid to the supply chain worldwide, and so many levels, would have complicated things greatly, and added tremendous expense.

The OE works fine (obviously, the army operated fleets of these things), but I've been told mixing OE and ATF is a big no-no, and, short of a complete rebuild, its impossible to get all of the existing fluid out of a transmission.

HTH,
David Doyle

 

[cranetruck]

When it warms up a bit here, I'll drain some fluid from the transmission to see what's in it now.
When I checked the level some time ago it looked like OE on the dip stick.

 

[cranetruck]

Sampled the transmission fluid and it looks and smells like used engine oil. It's almost black, so a change is due along with the filter. Capacity: 5 gallons.

 

[jasonjc]

I would try to get aillison to give you the spec for fluid. I know that the M135 the army used OE but GM called for ATF and most ever one says to use ATF the the OE eas the root of most of the problms. It was just cheaper for the military.

 

[JDToumanian]

Hi Bjorn,
I glanced through that Allison spec manual, it shows that their C-4 fluid meets the MIL-L-2104 spec. Why not just buy Allison C-4 fluid then? I'm sure any Detroit Diesel / Allison dealer in the country would have it in stock, and you definitely wouldn't have to worry whether you were using the right stuff...

Jon

 

[cranetruck]

Agreed, but I also must heed David Doyle's statement about not mixing OE and ATF and I'm not about to rebuild the transmission.
If "the right stuff" can mix with some residual engine oil I am all for using it.

 

[cranetruck]

A sample of oil from the transmission on the right and Ursa 30W OE on the left.

 

[JDToumanian]

Yuck! That oil looks pretty dirty. Hopefully the trans is okay. I definitely agree about not mixing ATF and OE, but I don't think Allison C-4 fluid is "ATF" in the normal sense, where we think of the light ~10w red colored fluid like Dexron... The MIL-L-2104 spec is the spec for OE so if C-4 meets that spec, then Allison C-4 is probably just fancily repackaged motor oil.

If I still had a doubt, I'd call DDA (Detroit Diesel Allison) and talk to someone in the technical department.

Or were you wondering if that black oil you got out of the trans is actually "ATF" that has burned because it was the wrong fluid?

Jon

 

[cranetruck]

To get a better picture/comparison of the oils, I used the scanner.
The used oil is on the right.

 

[JDToumanian]

Well, that picture doesn't make the oil look so bad. Looks like slightly dirty motor oil.

If it were my truck, I'd still use whatever Allison says over what the LO says. They may both be essentially motor oil, but the Allison product may have application specific additives that improve shifting or prolong the life of their transmissions that would not be in plain OE.

Jon

 

[cranetruck]

I'm taking notes, Jon. It's a big beautiful transmission and I want the retarder to work too.

 

[JDToumanian]

That's great that it's got a retarder, they work really well. I can't believe Allison included retarders on those transmissions but the Army never bothered to hook them up... what a waste!

I really like your 8x8, it's fun to read about all the innovative features it has. So far the only thing I'm not sure I like is the sealed brake drums... hopefully when you eventually need to service them and open one up, their novel design won't prove difficult to repair.... I'm just assuming parts like that are next to impossible to find...

Jon

 

[cranetruck]

I communicate with Frank in OK off and on, he sold one 8x8 to Tom Bauer a few years ago and still has one XM757, which he drives in parades etc.
Anyway, he say his retarder is hooked up. He should be providing details about it.
Frank also found his steering linkages (=sealed ball joints) stiff, but they only needed some WD40/PB Blaster and driving to loosen up.

About the retarder, the hook-up is very simple, everything is connected, fluid cooling lines to the transmission fluid cooler up front an all internals.

 

[cranetruck]

Called the Detroit Diesel shop/dealer in Roanoke, VA, and they confirmed that the C-2 fluid is not available. Dexron is a good ATF for this transmission.
About mixing with the oil that remains after draining, he said that was not a problem, but repeating the drain and fill with fresh fluid would eventually reduce the original fluid to a very small percentage. Exactly like draining/filling the cooling system.