Yet more drama with the 003

[Crawdaddy]

This past weekend I tried resurrecting my MEP-003 I got from GL. We were able to free up the injector pump last week, so we decided to put it back on and crank up the genset. Keep in mind I have never seen or heard this generator run. From the injector shims I acquired through 2 different sources I couldn't make the .012" total shim thickness that was on the set before, but I could make .013", so we went with that. We timed the engine and put the IP back on. So far, so good.

Then we pulled the spring from the injector pump valve to prime the IP. Turned the fuel pumps on, loosened the injector lines at the injectors and slowly spun the motor over by hand watching for fuel coming out of the injector lines. All 4 primed, excellent. Reinstalled the spring in the injector pump valve and torqued to spec. Cool.

We then tried to crank the engine over and the starter wasn't seeming to spin the motor fast enough. Every once in a while we'd get a thunk of a cylinder firing, and once got the engine to hit over 6 or 7 times in a row, but no running. The starter was probably running less than 100 RPMs, so I think that may have been my issue keeping me from starting it. Grrr.

So, we decided to call it a day until I can get the starter rebuilt. Threw the breaker bar back on the blower bolt to spin the motor over for some reason, and now the motor doesn't seem to want to spin past a certain point. Crud, sounds like it's seized. For kicks, I bumped the motor with the starter one more time and it looks like it still spins the motor. I think the cylinders got washed and lost lubrication.

So, we dumped some Marvel Mystery Oil down the glow plug holes and tried to work the engine back and forth by hand. It seems to be loosening back up. We can now spin it full rotation again, though with more effort than was previously required to spin the motor by hand.

Any tips, tricks, or suggestions to aid in my quest of bringing this genset to life? I will hopefully send the starter in to be rebuilt sometime this week.

 

[Keith_J]

Glowplugs working? Sounds like you have flooded the engine with all that priming. This will make starting difficult.

Disconnect the engine stop solenoid (just one wire) and all 4 glowplugs (remove and retain copper sealing washers). Charge batteries and spin it 15 seconds with the starter, wait 5 minutes and repeat three times.

Coat glow plugs with anti-seize and reinstall with sealing washers. Reconnect the solenoid lead. Recharge batteries and apply a full minute of preheat. Engine should start.


Flooding with these engines is easy. The only limit on fuel is the stop screw on the injection pump! With an 003A, that is about 1 cubic inch of fuel every minute for each cylinder. With each cylinder having 35 cubic inches of displacement and the combustion chamber is 1/19th of that (1.84 cubic inches), two minutes of cranking can totally hydro-lock the engine. Sure sounds like you hydro-locked it, that wasn't washing the lube from the cylinders.

 

[Crawdaddy]

We were suspecting hydro-lock until we pulled the glow plugs and got nowhere with turning the engine by hand after removing the glow plugs. After multiple tries to start the engine with 45-60 second preheat cycles, I burned one of the glow plugs apparently. It's now showing open circuit for that glow plug. I'll have to get a replacement. Also, 3 out of the 4 glow plugs did not have copper washers on them unless they got left in the holes in the head.

Admittedly, while trying to start the set, I had the throttle cable out partway thinking I needed more fuel, so I'm sure I was contributing to flooding the engine. The holes for the glow plugs do open up to the cylinder bore, don't they?

 

[Keith_J]

Yes, the glow plugs are in the pre-combustion chamber where the diesel is injected.

As long as the fuel cut-off solenoid has pulled up (energized) and the engine is just at cranking speed, maximum fuel is injected. This is why the engine smokes on startup. The governor pulls fuel back as engine speed approaches 1800 RPM. Reducing throttle won't reduce the fueling.

All diesels start easier with heat. A heat lamp directed on the cylinder head from the cooling door will help with an engine that hasn't run in a while.

The copper gaskets like to get locked into the head. Look inside with a flashlight to make sure they are there.

 

[glcaines]

The MEP-003A engine is designed to run at 1800 RPM. Once it starts, adjust the RPM until you are getting 60 Hz. Never idle the engine or you wil damage the VR for certain. When you shut it down, shut it down at 1800 RPM. When you start it back up, it should come up to ~1800 if you havent changed the setting. Mine will start easily in mid-twenties weather if I preheat about 30 seconds. It doesn't get that cold where you are, so yours should start easily if everything is right.

 

[sewerzuk]

Based on what you posted, it sounds like you're reading the tech manual and not just working by the seat of your pants!

IIRC, the shim thickness only adjusts backlash in the IP gear, but the timing is adjusted by changing button thickness inside of the IP. What method did you use for timing? I have done 5 or 6 of these and have found the "port close" mark method to work well...

Sounds to me like this could be a pump timing issue (with regards to why the engine wouldn't fire), especially since the pump was removed. I would double check the pump timing...

 

[Crawdaddy]

I did know about the getting to 1800RPM/60hz ASAP. Once I achieve 1800RPM I was planning on leaving the throttle control in place for future operation.

Later I will inspect the glowplug holes for the copper washers. Any suggestions on a good tool to fish said washers out of the hole? It appears they're quite small.

Sewerzuk, you are correct in that I've been reading the manual. You're also correct in that the shims control the backlash. I wish I had been able to make the .012" of thickness, but my existing shims were rusted and broken beyond reuse, so I had to go new.

To date, I have not found the PC mark on the flywheel. I did find the A and B marks, and installed the IP with a 1/8" drill bit inserted in the hole in the side of the IP while the flywheel was on the A mark. We also pulled the valve covers and verified the valves on cylinder 1 were both closed. The timing procedure seems pretty straightforward if I could just find the blasted marks mentioned in the TM on the flywheel!

As for button selection and timing, I have no earthly idea if this is the original and correct button and pump for this set. The pump was missing a nut holding it down and the others showed signs of being removed before. I was hoping to flow-test the pump, but I couldn't do that without the timing marks on the flywheel. When I pull the starter to send it out to be rebuilt, I plan to take some sandpaper and/or steel wool to the flywheel to try to clean it up and find the marks. I know they have to be there somewhere, but I sure can't find 'em!

Thanks all for the help!

 

[3dAngus]

As far as the slow revolution of the starter, I found the batteries have to be in tip top shape.
I've read where some would disagree and almost any battery will do in a MEP-003, so it may be machine particular.

When I replaced a battery I thought was plenty strong, it turned over twice as fast, and started with ease. I went back and put in the old battery, and it turned slower and would not start. You really have to spin some of these out to get them to start. DVM indicated both batteries were fully charged, but I had my doubts.

If you get everything else working right and it still turns the starter slowly and won't start, try newer batteries warmed up and see if there is a difference.

All machines may vary. This is my personal experience with MEP-003s, starters, slow turning revolutions, and batteries. Good luck.

 

[Crawdaddy]

Thanks for the advice 3dAngus. I'm using the 6TL batteries out of my deuce to start the starter. Granted, they're probably not in perfect condition, but these same batteries also start my deuce in less than a second. I was also using a pair of jumper cables to parallel 4 6V golf cart batteries that are in series together to make 24 volts paralleled to the 6TLs for additional power. If I didn't have enough cranking amps, I don't know what to say.

 

[storeman]

If you have a nut cracker, you probably have picks. Nut picks with their curved ends work well fishing out the copper gaskets. So does a bent piece of #14 solid wire. What I haven't found is a source for new copper gaskets, nor a source for the plastic gasket inside the IP under the cap and the 12 point spring and valve housing.

 

[Crawdaddy]

Is there an illustration somewhere of all the marks that can be encountered on the flywheel in the order they appear? I'm trying to get an idea of what I should look for where on the flywheel.

 

[storeman]

I believe when cranking clockwise the marks you are looking for are about 10 degrees before the "A" mark.
Jerry

 

[jbk]

no illustration am aware of. the order is clockwise, pc then A shows up, then B is 180 deg. later. where are you located?

 

[Crawdaddy]

Tonight I got outside and took another look at the flywheel. I finally found the PC mark. To see the letters PC, I had to look at exactly the right angle. But, I found it, and have the pump timed to it. However, with a 1/8" drill bit in the alignment hole of the pump, the pointer on the flywheel can end up on either side of the PC mark. Considering the TM says that it can't be more than 1/2 tick off the PC mark, this seems kind of sloppy. Is this normal, or do I have an issue somewhere? I thought that perhaps that the shim pack being .001" thicker might mess with the gear mesh, but would it cause that much play in the flywheel indication?

As soon as I can get to the starter shop, I'm going to drop it off to be rebuilt.

 

[Crawdaddy]

So....Brought the starter by a local starter shop today. The armature in the starter is toast, and parts can't be obtained for the starter at any reasonable price. So, I guess I'm on the hunt for another known-good starter. Anyone have any good leads?

 

[Keith_J]

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