painting my 53 REO

[austinaubinoe]

Hi All

My deuce got delivered last saturday and I have been messing with it since. Its a pretty solid truck, with a few rust spots.

I started going around the truck with a paint scraper and a wire brush. Im not going for a perfect paintjob, just a solid one. Im fairly confident I got all the unstable paint off before I painted any panels. And I wiped it down with Acetone before rolling.

So far you can see Ive painted the roof of the cab, the left fender, the front bumper, the inside of the rear tailgate and started the driver side mirror assemble (then it started raining).

My goal is to paint it this color:
M35A2

Gillespie 24087 Dark OD Green

 

[austinaubinoe]

How much does the paint ACTUALLY cost from Army Jeep Parts?

Only $30 a gallon, but $68 a gallon to ship? You gotta be kidding me.

Does anyone know if I can buy Rustoleum in dark OD?

 

[NDT]

Nice old timer! Lots of folks are going with the Behr Premium Plus from Home Depot. Search here for the formulas for the color you want. The Gillipsie paint will fade out in no time if left outside in the elements. I am about to try the Behr myself for a trailer.

 

[austinaubinoe]

Nice old timer! Lots of folks are going with the Behr Premium Plus from Home Depot. Search here for the formulas for the color you want. The Gillipsie paint will fade out in no time if left outside in the elements. I am about to try the Behr myself for a trailer.

Must be talking about my truck cause im only 20

Thanks for the reply. GCI will fade?!?!? Thats pretty messed up that its so pricey, yet not long lasting. This site was alot easier to understand the total cost of getting the GCI paint:
PAINTS

But if its gonna fade I might just try and mix my own with Rustoleum!

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/trailers/75954-paint-my-m101a1.html#post954478

Only $30 a gallon and can get it in store I think.
Professional Gloss Hunter Green 1 Gallon Oil Based Enamel-182773 at The Home Depot
1-Gallon Gloss Protective Enamel-215967 at The Home Depot

Im doing double coats on most surfaces with the rusty primer, and I have used a half gallon so far. Will easily use another when I do the bed. So after the 2 gallons on top coat im looking at $120 paint job! Think it will hold up, or am I doing it all wrong? FYI is all getting rolled on.

 

[SteveKuhn]

Seems like you want 24087. I admire your taste in trucks to model.

If you check the latex house paint thread, I posted a Benjamin Moore formula for 24087 that you can get in most any finish, alkyd or acrylic, porch/floor, house paint or industrial. Not as cheap as Behr but good stuff. Its on the wood of the troop seats (industrial acrylic) and the wheels (alkyd) in the picture w/ the little girl. That's semi-gloss after 60 days of curing. Next batch for me will be low lustre in the SuperSpec. It's more like the Gillespie finish.

I also got dangerously close w/ RustOleum Red Heavy Rust Primer + Satin Hunter Green + Flat Black thanks to a tip from OldFart. See the sand on top of the curb side fender in the attached photo with the train. The rest of the truck is Gillespie spray cans. That little bit of sand paint is the RustOleum. I could have gotten it closer but I got tired of mixing.

Someone posted that 50/50 of Hunter Green and (Leather?? Dark??) Brown in RustOleum gives you 24087. Can't remember the thread. Might wanna play a bit w/ that. Use satin Hunter if you do otherwise you'll get full gloss instead of semi.

 

[austinaubinoe]

Seems like you want 24087. I admire your taste in trucks to model.

If you check the latex house paint thread, I posted a Benjamin Moore formula for 24087 that you can get in most any finish, alkyd or acrylic, porch/floor, house paint or industrial. Not as cheap as Behr but good stuff. Its on the wood of the troop seats (industrial acrylic) and the wheels (alkyd) in the picture w/ the little girl. That's semi-gloss after 60 days of curing. Next batch for me will be low lustre in the SuperSpec. It's more like the Gillespie finish.

I also got dangerously close w/ RustOleum Red Heavy Rust Primer + Satin Hunter Green + Flat Black thanks to a tip from OldFart. See the sand on top of the curb side fender in the attached photo with the train. The rest of the truck is Gillespie spray cans. That little bit of sand paint is the RustOleum. I could have gotten it closer but I got tired of mixing.

Someone posted that 50/50 of Hunter Green and (Leather?? Dark??) Brown in RustOleum gives you 24087. Can't remember the thread. Might wanna play a bit w/ that. Use satin Hunter if you do otherwise you'll get full gloss instead of semi.

Cool man I appreciate the response. I linked above to where the dude said your could mix rustoleum 1:1 to get the 24087. Whay kind of paint do I want for the body? You said you used 2 types for the wheels and wood. I REALLY like the look of your wheels. Just the right amount of gloss.

I have a local benjamin moore. The oil based alkyd paint seems the way to go for metal. But most seems listed for inside use??!!?? The house paint thread didnt really get me anywhere. Seems like for every successes there was a disaster. I would MUCH rather order 4 gallons of ready mixed paint, then to mix my own.

Link to the formula? Maybe they can make me a sample quart before I commit to buy?

 

[SteveKuhn]

Thanks for the kind words on the wheels. All the BM was brushed with a 1", fine chisel angled sash brush. You need to get really close to tell. It will look full gloss for at least 3 weeks and deaden slowly after that. You might want to try the semi and if it's too glossy 'round about Easter, try the low luster base. It's more like satin.

Here's the link to my formula post. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/939714-post80.html If it seems too dark, you can back off on the black a tad. I put a lot of detail in that you can take or leave for your purposes. It includes links to the BM Tech data sheets for the paint that say it's interior/exterior industrial.

You can certainly get quarts but they usually cost 30 - 50% of the price of a gallon.

FWIW: The BM Porch/patio on the bed is doing very well. That was rolled.

I'm trying to decide if I'm going to do my M-105 w/ acrylic or alkyd. That's coming up shortly. Either is made for metal, a nice perk.

The acrylic is REALLY easy to work. Just be prepared for your truck to look like its 383 green for about 45 mins until it dries.

The alkyd is fast and sets hard pretty quickly - much quicker than Gillespie. It still needs alkyd's time to fully cure. It would be my only choice for undercarriage, axles, etc.

One other consideration that I think might have contributed to trouble where others used latex - rust/priming: Alkyd primers generally say 2 wks dry time before applying latex. Personally, I'd double that. If I planned on less than 3 or 4 weeks, I'd use alkyd.

If I wanted to use acrylic on short timetable, I'd skip the red primer and use something like RustMort according to directions to kill the rust. The result is a 'primer' of sorts. The BM industrial acrylic is DTM - direct to metal/no primer (read the tech sheet.)

I'm eager to hear how things progress for you, esp if you use the BM.

 

[austinaubinoe]

DUDE thank you so much!! I read through that entire post on the paint. SO I can get an Industrial paint from a local paint shop. Thats what I was so very confused about. All I was hearing was you can just slap house paint on truck.. blah blah blah.

I really wanna go with an oil based paint, so the alkyd sounds good:
Benjamin Moore Super Spec HP Alkyd Semi-Gloss Enamel P24

Is this (Super Spec D.T.M. Alkyd Low Lustre Enamel (163) the same thing??
Product Catalog

How many gallons did you use? Im thinking Im gonna prime the other fender, the grille and the corners of the bed now. Pretty much anywhere I have bare surface rust.

So this is all the info I need to give the paint guy?
P24-4B (alkyd semi gloss)
OY 6X5
RX 22
BK 7X1

But you dont think its good enough for the bed? Anti-Slip Floor Coating (116) OR Latex Floor and Patio Enamel (122)
Product Catalog

Or what about Epoxy? The "Epoxy Mastic Coating (P45)" seems to have all the properties I need in a paint.
http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/...t&s_cu=clean_solvent&piSheen=P45&advs=0&tab=3


I think Im making things too complicated! I know I want oil based. If I could use one type of paint for everything that would also be ideal. Any idea on the cost differences per gallon?

 

[austinaubinoe]

Ok well I did a little more reading to see what was available at my local full service paint shop. Seems that the P24 is my all around best choice.

Another page describing it:
Super Spec HP® D.T.M. Alkyd Semi-Gloss P24

Think I may just get a 5 gallon drum so I have the correct color for time to come. Again, any idea how much this should run me?


EDIT: A close up picture of the wheels in bright light would be sick, when you have a chance. that is if your using the exact formula with the P24 on them. Because I would kind of be going in blind when I order this paint.

THANKS

 

[SteveKuhn]

Personally, I wouldn't recommend buying more than 1 gallon of anything until you try the color and see if you like it and the way the paint works in person. Then buy more. Cameras and computer monitors change the colors if only slightly and this particular color is very susceptible to light angels in any brand. I don't think you'll see much savings in the 5 gal.

It's machine mixed by the dealer and if they're competant it'll match between gallons. Just observe the rules about changing batches only at a corner, shadow line, etc.

My guess is 4 gallons depending on application and how much you're painting; probably $40 - $50/gal. I don't promote this as cheap. I chose it for availability and BM experience with cure time and durability. It's about a $ wash with Gillespie + 1 case shipping. To me, the difference between $20/gal and $50/gal isn't a big deal in comparison to other costs in restoring and maintaining the truck.


'Good enuf for the bed/cab floor' depends on usage. Any paint will work but depending on abuse and wear, life will be longest with floor paints and shorter with others. No paint holds up to dragging metal over it. The 2 part epoxy is intriguing but I shy away from complicated.

 

[austinaubinoe]

Oh little more costly then I was expecting! Since its the same cost as "the real thing" its a tougher call. You really thing the Benjamin moore P24 is better? Its hard for me to talk about this, because I really know nothing about paint!

Thank you for the tip on starting new batches on corners, etc. I would not have done that. And I will buy it a gallon at a time. I here ya on staying away from complicated epoxies, just was kinda getting overwhelmed with all the options.

Due to the fact this paint cost more then the rustoleum rust paint, I think Ill pick up another gallon of the rustoleum rusty primer to do the bed and other "rougher" surfaces. This way maybe ill get a little better coverage with the OD. I wanna go to the paint shop tomorrow and order up a gallon and maybe discuss my base options with the tech.

You've been a huge help

 

[Scrounge41]

I'm following this thread as well. I haven't been a Behr fan for years because of a few failures back in the day (very poor coverage). I was talking the other day to a pro house painter and was told that their paint quality had improved significantly. I painted a non military trailer recently as a test with the Behr 24087 equivalent over Rustoleum rusty metal primer and am happy with the color. I wish I had long term side by side comparability studies of the latex and the alkyd. I don't like to "cheap out" on paint cost because the labor is so much more valuable than the material.

 

[SteveKuhn]

Based on experience, I tend to agree overall with everything that Scrounge41 wrote, esp. the comparatively low cost of material vs labor. I'd just reiterate leaving ample cure time for the alkyd primer under acrylic or latex.

I'm using BM because:
- I'm generally a BM bigot in all things paint. BM just sets up and 'first level cures' faster than Behr in every comparison I've done. Every dark color in an acrylic will take longer to cure than a pastel (e.g. Desert Tan.)
- Easy to get in any quantity - today.
- I prefer using the industrial finishes vs. the house paint. BM makes a semi-, a low luster, and a flat in house paint, all acrylic if you want to drop to about $30/gal. The color formulas will work. I chose the flat in this for a repaint of my M101 racks and bows (including the metal parts and tongue A frame) to match the 101's (military, darker than Aervoe or Gillespie) 383 CARC. Future, I'll probably try the acrylic industrial flat.

This painting thing can become a religion if you let it. My truck looked terrible because of fade and color change in Aervoe when I bought it. Other guys around here love it. SRJeeper's truck looks wonderful in Gillespie, but it's also kept inside. This thread has posts that it fades when left outside, like mine is. Guess we'll see how that goes up against the BM.

Most all modern paint works OK if prepped and applied properly and allowed to cure. It depends on your region's climate and time of year how well the curing goes and how long the color holds. What cures fine for somebody's timetable in the drier southwest might not do as well for someone in the PNW or middle east coast.

 

[austinaubinoe]

Found this comparison on a paint forum:

Alkyd DTM's have better wetting properties on marginally prepared surfaces and are less suseptable to flash rusting. Better adhesion to poorly prepared surfaces too. They do have very good rust inhibition since oils tend to be less pourous than latex/acrylic due to the way the film forms and the slower dry times. Very good rust inhibition on tight adhering rust. Oils have better chemical and abraision resistance for the most part. They do tend to break down and chalk in the presence of UV, loose gloss and color more quickly as well. Acrylic DTM's have very good gloss and color retention, quick dry times and recoat, and have very good rust inhibition over surfaces that are clean and abraded to clean or bright metal. They also perform better in humid conditions and can be put back into service quicker, have less odor during application. Acrylics have almost equal to hardness as oils, cure slower, but remain tight and hard, as oils continue to oxidize throughout there life and become more brittle, compromising future topcoats. Most acrylics are resistant to most epoxy and urethanes, or coatings with hot solvents. Alkyds, are not resistant to hot solvents. Most alkyd DTM's, unless a phenolic resin is used, can not be put on galvanized metal. Supponification or zinc soap will be the result. Really depends on the scope, spec, environment and conditions which determines where one over the other will be used. We just completed a 280,000 sq ft dual hockey rink in which the ceiling was shop primed structural steel trusses and beams, with a insulated galvanzied roof deck. We sprayed the ferrous metal with Universal Metal Primer, which is a phenolic alkyd, so any over spray on the galvy would not be compromised. We finished everything with an acrylic DTM semi gloss. Surface temp, humidity and dew point were all a factor, however we had minimal flash rusting on lower sections that could not be sprayed with Universal Primer, and just had 2 coats of DTM Acrylic over shop primed steel that had been exposed outside for at least six months. Prep was SSPC-SP-1, and SSPC-SP-3. Looks great.

 

[austinaubinoe]

Should I go with the DTM industrial acrylic??? When it comes down to it, my real concern is color and gloss retention while left outside. That guy claims the Alkyd can chalk/ breakdown over time from UV rays (IE being outside).

So this guy: Super Spec HP® D.T.M. (Direct to Metal) Acrylic Semi-Gloss P29

I think my problem with acrylic is that I think of the paint we used in 3rd grade art class. Its hard for me to image water based paint lasting long at all. Flash rust wont be an issue because im using the rusty primer.

I picked up a product called Phosphoric Prep and Etch. Gonna scrub the whole bed with it. says just to scrub in in and let it dry. I already swepped all the debris off the bed, leaving it solid, but rusty.

ALSO can anyone explain the numbers/letters on the back? Are they original to the truck or painted on when the NJ National Guard got hold of it? Dash plate says its originally a navy rig. Took a damp cloth to the engine bay, cleaned up real well! Heater is in great shape! Just gotta fins a replacement duct.

 

[austinaubinoe]

better pic of numbers. same numbers were on the front. Im gonna try and sand down the sides of the hood to see what I find!

 

[Scrounge41]

I have had good luck with Ben Moore products as well, but typically I use Sherwin-Williams commercial products. Mostly I use lacquers for cabinet projects, but I have also used their industrial enamels on metal with good results. I am in a salty humid coastal area and am used to the battle against rust. The phosphoric acid products are a good first step. Knock off whatever rust blisters you can with a pick hammer, wire wheel on a grinder or whatever and spray, brush, or roll on the phosphoric. Protect the area from rain/humidity and after a day or so of drying you will get a tight coating with perhaps some areas of a chalky dust. Wire brush off the dust and hit it with the rusty metal primer. Like SteveKuhn said, let that fully cure. I let mine go for a week, then applied the topcoat. Good luck.

 

[austinaubinoe]

I have had good luck with Ben Moore products as well, but typically I use Sherwin-Williams commercial products. Mostly I use lacquers for cabinet projects, but I have also used their industrial enamels on metal with good results. I am in a salty humid coastal area and am used to the battle against rust. The phosphoric acid products are a good first step. Knock off whatever rust blisters you can with a pick hammer, wire wheel on a grinder or whatever and spray, brush, or roll on the phosphoric. Protect the area from rain/humidity and after a day or so of drying you will get a tight coating with perhaps some areas of a chalky dust. Wire brush off the dust and hit it with the rusty metal primer. Like SteveKuhn said, let that fully cure. I let mine go for a week, then applied the topcoat. Good luck.

Thanks for the tips. The primer ive laid down so far was not treated with the phosphoric stuff. But I did wire brush it and wiped it down with acetone. I got the stuff because I didnt feel like wire brushing the entire bed, but sounds like I should treat the rest of the rust with it too.

It says to wipe down the the treated metal with a damp rag before priming, do you recommend this?

 

[Scrounge41]

Wiping down metal with a damp (with water I assume) rag seems contrary to my intuition, but I'm not a chemist. I just looked at my bottle in the garage (same product) and that's what it says. I would think using the acetone to wipe it down would be a better idea, as wiping with a solvent is a standard procedure when doing auto paint work. It is probably best to follow the label, but it would help if the label was specific as to what to dampen the rag with.

 

[MWMULES]

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you can get help from CARNAC http://www.steelsoldiers.com/members-rides/62871-2011-vin-info-thread.html read the first page and submit your info.