Solenoid M35A3

[Economist]

My truck had started to give me fits on start up about a week ago. About every 5th attempt, she would be non-responsive. I searched the forum, the internet and the TM's. I took a voltmeter and tested various points down the line. Narrowed it down to the solenoid. For next steps, the only on-point information I found included the TM section to replace the entire starter assembly. So, armed with a little knowledge and some past experience on Chevy solenoids, I tore into the project last night. My plan was to flip the copper disc over and get some more life out of the solenoid.

After discovering that the starter assembly weighs more than the amount of my body outside the engine bay, I finally pulled it out to get it all on my workbench. Long story short, someone had already flipped the copper plate once. So, does anyone know of a source for the copper plate? If not, I may try to machine off a few hundred thous to get down to a clean surface again.

Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[mktopside]

I think you're leading the charge alone on this one brother. All I can suggest is getting out the yellow pages and finding your local truck parts supply house.

Good luck!

 

[renovate7]

Who made the starter? Start with that name and model # and try big truck starter repair shops. Then I'd contact the manufacturer. Keep us apprised as to your progress.

 

[Nonotagain]

McMaster-Carr carries various types of copper products. Not knowing what the thickness or diameter it's hard to give you an idea on the type to purchase.

McMaster-Carr

 

[Economist]

Thanks for the feedback. I will attack it again this afternoon, make some calls and post some pics.

Best Regards,
-djd

 

[Motorcar]

I would be interested to know how you got the disc off. The shaft with the nut just spins on mine so I wire wheel cleaned it with a dremel tool. I assumed that because I was doing this while it was still installed on the starter and the starter still mounted in the truck, that was why the solenoid shaft would spin freely. Sound about right?

 

[goodguyzy]

this engine is a standard civi engine, is the starter also? wouldn't a cat dealer have the parts?

 

[Economist]

Here is the update. I looked through the McMaster Carr catalog and did not see exactly what I was looking for. So, I pulled the disc out of the solenoid. To answer Motorcar's question, you have to pull the solenoid off of the starter and get a wrench on the magnet side (held inside the ear of the starter) to get the nut off the shaft holding the disc -- See the photo 2.

I found it best to pull both the solenoid and the starter out to get a good handle on it. There is a small allen head bolt at the base of the ear. The allen bolt has a washer in it that fits in a groove of the retaining pin. Mine was not in the grove and had obviously been worked on. Once you pull the retaining pin (from the larger hole on the left in the picture), you can rotate the solenoid around and lift it off the fork inside the ear. There is a thick rubber boot over the shaft. It should come out with the solenoid.

The photo (just named photo) shows the disassembled solenoid. Just be careful when you pull the copper disc out, there is a spring pushing it up that can fling all the various washers and insulator on the shop floor (not that I am speaking from experience).

The photo3 shows the copper disc on my lathe. I put a 3/8 - 16 by 1.25 bolt through it with a jam nut on the back side. Then mounted in the lathe a shaved off a couple of thou (just enough to get rid of the pitting. While I was at it, I did both sides. Then take a file to the heads of the two copper bolts to get the fouling off.

I put it all back together, sanded it and put a fresh coat of paint on it. I will reinstall over the weekend and see if I got all the pieces and parts back in the proper places. Then post the rest of the story.

Cheers!

 

[Economist]

Not sure why the pic did not attach. Here is another attempt.

 

[Motorcar]

Thanks for the write up and pics, let us know if it solved your issues.

 

[M35A2-AZ]

My deuce does the same thing. Push the start button and all I get is a click.
Then you try it agian later and it works fine. I was thinking it was the starter relay. Thanks!

Sorry I miss read the title, I was talking about a M35a2.

 

[Economist]

So, here is the rest of the story. I let the paint dry over the weekend. Last night I reassembled the solenoid/starter. In the photos attached, you can see the end of the solenoid that I referred to earlier. You have to put a wrench on the nut to get the copper disc off of the shaft. I am also attaching a photo of the inside of the ear. You can see the fork inside. The best way to get the solenoid off is to remove the retaining pin (as described earlier in this thread), remove the two bolts holding the solenoid on the starter and then rotate the solenoid 180 degrees. This allows you to lift off the shaft inside the ear off the fork.

When reassembling, I could not get the rubber boot to fit in the recessed grove just inside of the ear. After about an hour of trying, I stuffed the boot back in the ear and slid the solenoid into the starter. (if you leave the lip of the rubber boot outside the ear, you cannot compress it enough to bolt the solenoid back onto the starter).

Then came the fun part. Holy moly is that thing awkward to feed back down into the engine bay. One squished pinky and several new terms to the English language later, I horsed it in, bolted it down, wired it back up and she fired right up. Tested it 15 times and she fired without one hickup.

NOTE: I zipped tied all the wires together (grouped by each respective post) so it was easier to wire back up. Make sure, of course, that the battery is disconnected for the whole affair or a squished pinky will be your least concern.

Hope this is helpful.

Cheers!

 

[Motorcar]

Nice pics, thanks again, I'll give it a try after the looming thunderstorms

 

[Motorcar]

Okay I jumped on mine and it was a bit different type of solenoid. It had a 1- 1/4" cover bolt on the flywheel side that I removed and was able to access the shaft with an allen wrench to hold it in place. The contact disc was pristine on the back side so I did the flip and put it back together. The two contact posts were pitted which got cleaned up. I also noticed the pitting was worse on the hot post and that left the two sides uneven with a straight edge. This would obviously make the contact disc mate unevenly with the posts. Now they are the same hieght and clean.

I found that removing the exhause flex pipe and the slobber tube sure made getting that big heavy starter in and out easier. Thanks again to Economist for the photos and write up, encouraged me to get after it.

 

[Economist]

Glad to hear you had a clean side on the disc. This site has been extremely helpful to me and I hope to give something back by posting on issues not already addressed. Excellent idea on the exhaust pipe and slobber tube. When I went to ease my starter back in, the main ground bolt got hooked on one of my zip ties. With blood rushing to my head, I was weighing my options as I got pulled further and further down into the engine bay. Thank goodness for my 15 year old (6 foot plus, 165, size 14 shoes and a discus thrower). He came by just in the nick of time to lift it up from below and free my hands up to unhook the zip tie.

I have battle scars on my left shoulder from that gnarly piece of steel below the air intake. I am surprised that was not removed or rounded off long ago. My 7 year old told the wife that the Deuce bite me. Removal of the pipe and tube would have been much easier. Lesson learned.

 

[glcaines]

Your work looks very good. Excellent write-up.

 

[Motorcar]

Just wanted to update those that may search for an answer down the road, after a couple of weeks of driving she has been 100% after the proceedures given here. My solenoid being slightly different than the pictures can be atributed to my truck is a M35A2, not an A3.

 

[m-35tom]

i have repaired hundreds of starters by using phosfer bronze silver solder sticks to build up the burned away disk and also the contacts. just grind it back close to the proper size and shape after building it up. lasts longer than new.

tom

 

[Hoefler]

I recently replaced the o rings in my fuel system (A3) and ended up with a deep purge issue. Ran stater harder than normal. Now when I try to start it, I can hear the relay on firewall click but no starter engage. Takes about 10 trys to get it to engage starter. Did I hot spot the solenoid disc? Was going to by a relay, but think its my solenoid.
Is this correct?
As a side note, I learned how to quick prime after just trying to start it (which did not work)-do this:
open the petcock drain at base of filter, take filler cap off tank and stuff rags in fuel filler opening, then stick an air blow hose in tank-blow some compressed air in tank until some fuel runs out of petcock. Remove rags, put cap back on, close petcock and try starting. She will firte right back up!

 

[glcaines]

I recently replaced the o rings in my fuel system (A3) and ended up with a deep purge issue. Ran stater harder than normal. Now when I try to start it, I can hear the relay on firewall click but no starter engage. Takes about 10 trys to get it to engage starter. Did I hot spot the solenoid disc? Was going to by a relay, but think its my solenoid.
Is this correct?
As a side note, I learned how to quick prime after just trying to start it (which did not work)-do this:
open the petcock drain at base of filter, take filler cap off tank and stuff rags in fuel filler opening, then stick an air blow hose in tank-blow some compressed air in tank until some fuel runs out of petcock. Remove rags, put cap back on, close petcock and try starting. She will firte right back up!

This is off-topic from the original post, but it sounds like your check valve on the top of the tank is plugged up, which is a very common problem with A3s. After changing the fuel filter, the A3 should fire right back up without difficulty if everything is clean.