ATF red dye?

[eagle4g63]

I've read this and wasn't going to comment but............I keep coming back to the old saying.......let them without sin throw the first stone..........I don't need some butt head calling on me just cause I break one law....I am sure in some way or another you also are breaking "some" law some times......nobody is perfect!!! And plain and simple some of them are just plain stupid!!!

The only problem I have with the whole tax thing is it is all getting out of hand and IF the taxes were used for what they are collected for and not lining pockets than I wouldn't have a problem with them...........but.......Oh, NEVER MIND!



Anyway...........I also "HATE" when a thread is always steering OFF COURSE............that is also a great waste............I would love to be able to see a thread that interests me and might be of help to what I may be dealing with be JUST THAT.............In this case I don't give a hoot about who did or didn't pay their share of tax and who may or may not be calling on someone...............just get to the bottom line with the whole ATF being used in the tank as an ADDITIVE, and IF it is ok or not. Additives are sold to be just that, so is it going to be looked at for the red dye or not?????

 

[davidhdale]

lets just say they test then it show bo, more oil than fuel that you paid road tax on then you have no fuel sticker you just opened a can worms

 

[davidhdale]

Now if only they could tax energy, we could get money from bicyclists and walkers. They use the road to and do not pay the same tax.

they dont weigh thousands of pounds do they this is getting out of hand.

 

[73m819]

Now if only they could tax energy, we could get money from bicyclists and walkers. They use the road to and do not pay the same tax.

they dont weigh thousands of pounds do they this is getting out of hand.

Yep, but ROAD TAX is used for the building of bike TRAILS and walking PATHS

 

[doghead]

Horses and steel wheeled wagons do damage our local roads.(without paying any taxes)

 

[swbradley1]

The horse shoes do a lot of damage.......

 

[Flyingvan911]

I run diesel from the onroad pump with a few quarts of motor oil and sometimes some injector cleaner. ATF seems like a huge hassle if you get dipped.

Missouri charges electric/hybrid vehicle owners an extra fee every year.

 

[KsM715]

just get to the bottom line with the whole ATF being used in the tank as an ADDITIVE, and IF it is ok or not. Additives are sold to be just that, so is it going to be looked at for the red dye or not?????

All you have to do is wait for the OP's friend to get done fighting it and see if he won or lost and you'll haveyour answer.

 

[eagle4g63]

All you have to do is wait for the OP's friend to get done fighting it and see if he won or lost and you'll haveyour answer.

My point to the "T".......but with a thread pushed off course and getting a bunch of junk in it.....it will get locked, then no-one will get to know the answer......stay on track and let it get to the point, unless anybody has had an exact same thing happen and has an answer of what they went through, NOT just guessing and he said she said stuff!!!


It also gets me to my next point..........IF you start a thread....I believe YOU the OP should FINISH the thread (any thread) I hate waiting for an answer to something or a write up about something to be left in the black hole of nothing.....

 

[plym49]

Thank you, Eagle.

To summarize what I believe the open questions are at this point:

1. Does ATF and HHO use the same red dye (provisionally, the answer seems to be yes).

2. If the answer to #1 is 'yes', then how much ATF can you add as an additive to road diesel before it turns red enough to trigger the Wrath of Khan?

3. Similarly to #2, how much ATF can you add as an additive before the filters turn red?

4. If filters turn red, do they stay red? IOW, if they went red because the additives were a little high, when you went back to un-additived fuel, does the red get rinsed away? Or once red, always red?

5. How much ATF as an additive is OK without the full fuel test (spectroscopic, or whatever) flags it as NG?

If we get these answers, we will be in good shape.

 

[Castle Bravo]

If you purchase a military vehicle that once had red dye diesel in it (tank and fuel filters, etc) before you owned it, could that effect you? If red dye diesel is for offroad use only, it seems feasible that the vehicle was once used offroad and may have red dye still in the system, but be using only blue on road diesel now.

In a vehicle with two fuel tanks, if you have offroad diesel in one tank (for use offroad) and taxed blue diesel in the other (for use onroad) is that okay?

Is JP8 a road legal fuel?

These are things I've wondered.

Here in AZ, we have truck diesel ($0.26 tax) and car diesel ($0.18 tax). Vehicles over 26000 lbs or with more than 2 axles have to use truck diesel unless they're exempt (school bus, govt, etc) Some of the stations won't sell you diesel if you show up in a 3 axle vehicle. I guess they'd still sell you gasoline for your deuce, though.

 

[Danl]

Danl M915A1

felix added one cup to 100 galons he said the atf was filty from being in his car for two years. What the dot test lab found is unknown to us, other than he was ok maybe they found alluminum in the filter and cleared him, but he is not doing that again . he put the rest of the stuff in his oil tank to heat his house and hot water. alot lest trouble that way. that is what I told him I do with my old oil. gest keep filter around the house thay come in handy

 

[commandojeff]

If you purchase a military vehicle that once had red dye diesel in it (tank and fuel filters, etc) before you owned it, could that effect you? If red dye diesel is for offroad use only, it seems feasible that the vehicle was once used offroad and may have red dye still in the system, but be using only blue on road diesel now.

I asked that same question on like the 3rd or 4th page. I'm curious about this, but it doesn't seem like anyone has a good answer from experience. I'm just going to keep running the truck on normal diesel. The truth is the truth, and that's all I can claim. I bought it from the government, which is proven to use off road diesel, and they would be able to see that there is little (remnant dye) leftover from them. I can't justify changing out all of my filters, when they are fine, just because the government sold me a truck that had red ran through it. I figure the government made that law... and they sold me the truck that had offroad diesel ran through it... so it kinda cancels out haha.

Maybe that answers our question in a weird way. I can understand why they would give you trouble about this issue. Then again I don't understand because technically you never ran red dye through it.

Just things that my brain thinks about when I get extra time

 

[doghead]

I can't justify changing out all of my filters, when they are fine,

It's called PMCS

Also, with any "new to you" truck, you should not assume anything is "Fine", unless you checked or changed.

Maintenance,is not changing your filters on the side of the road.

What the government did with your truck does not excuse anyone of their responsibilities.

 

[nf6x]

If the government sold you a knife with the blood of a murder victim on it, you still don't want to get caught with that bloody knife in your possession.

If you legitimately buy a government truck with traces of dye in the tank and/or filters but you only buy taxed fuel for it, and then you get pulled over and dipped, then you can claim that in your defense. Will that honest defense work? Well, that will be up to the officer to pulls you over, a judge, and possibly a jury. But even though you are honest and did nothing wrong, you may still end up paying a huge fine, and/or jail/prison time, and/or an IRS audit. Replacing the fuel and filter will be much, much cheaper, especially if you can find some other off-road use for that fuel.

I have another question now: I wonder if there is some sort of inexpensive field test such as some kind of special litmus paper that changes color in the presence of trace amounts of the red dye? I plan to visually check the fuel in my recent truck purchases, but if it looks clear I would feel more comfortable if I could easily see if there are traces that would be found by a lab if I was dipped. My new wrecker came with two FULL tanks of fuel, and I'd rather use that on the road than have it go bad before I manage to run it all through my Bobcat.

 

[commandojeff]

If the government sold you a knife with the blood of a murder victim on it, you still don't want to get caught with that bloody knife in your possession.

A murder is a murder. That's a crime. What kind of crime is being committed for the government using non taxed fuel? It's their fuel and they own it. Now that I think about it... I bought the truck and paid taxes for it. So technically I paid taxes for the fuel that they gave me in that tank. That's good enough for me. The deal was made. I can sleep at night.

 

[KsM715]

A murder is a murder. That's a crime. What kind of crime is being committed for the government using non taxed fuel? It's their fuel and they own it. Now that I think about it... I bought the truck and paid taxes for it. So technically I paid taxes for the fuel that they gave me in that tank. That's good enough for me. The deal was made. I can sleep at night.

Sales tax and road use tax are apples and oranges. Paying sales tax on something does not clear you of fuel tax. I paid the sales tax on my trucks and I still have to pay property taxes on them.

As for having 2 tanks,one for off road and one for on road, is not feasable. Without first stopping at the trail head (when going back onroad) you would have to stop and flush out all the off road fuel from the fuel lines and filters all the way to the injectors before you could leagally drive on the highway with the onroad tank. The only way to use off road fuel is to trailer your offroad vehicle from trail to trail.

*edit* when I was in none of the fuel I ever used was dyed for off road use only

 

[m16ty]

If you purchase a military vehicle that once had red dye diesel in it (tank and fuel filters, etc) before you owned it, could that effect you? If red dye diesel is for offroad use only, it seems feasible that the vehicle was once used offroad and may have red dye still in the system, but be using only blue on road diesel now.

In a vehicle with two fuel tanks, if you have offroad diesel in one tank (for use offroad) and taxed blue diesel in the other (for use onroad) is that okay?

Is JP8 a road legal fuel?

These are things I've wondered.

Here in AZ, we have truck diesel ($0.26 tax) and car diesel ($0.18 tax). Vehicles over 26000 lbs or with more than 2 axles have to use truck diesel unless they're exempt (school bus, govt, etc) Some of the stations won't sell you diesel if you show up in a 3 axle vehicle. I guess they'd still sell you gasoline for your deuce, though.

I've gotten a couple of MVs from GSA with dye in the tank. If caught you could probably fight it and win but it would still cost you.

The two tank idea won't work. How would the authorities trust you to only use the dyed fuel off-road?

I've never heard of a different tax for trucks and cars.

In TN, you can't have dyed diesel in anything that was built as a road vehicle. I know a local logger that got caught. They even fined him for junk vehicles on his place that hadn't run in years. Their explanation was that if it was built as a on-road vehicle, then it could be fined. I don't know what the outcome of the court was but I do know he was ticketed for his junk vehicles that had dyed fuel in them.

 

[m16ty]

I have another question now: I wonder if there is some sort of inexpensive field test such as some kind of special litmus paper that changes color in the presence of trace amounts of the red dye? I plan to visually check the fuel in my recent truck purchases, but if it looks clear I would feel more comfortable if I could easily see if there are traces that would be found by a lab if I was dipped. My new wrecker came with two FULL tanks of fuel, and I'd rather use that on the road than have it go bad before I manage to run it all through my Bobcat.

The preliminary test the cops will pull is just a visual test. They use a clear straw or hose to pull some fuel out of the tank. If it looks clear to the naked eye, they will let you go. So there is really no reason for a test kit because if the fuel looks clear (not red) they will not send it to the lab.

 

[Castle Bravo]

The two tank idea won't work. How would the authorities trust you to only use the dyed fuel off-road?

I suppose my question was more rhetorical, but I suppose they'd "trust" you in the same manner that they "trust" you to pay the correct taxes to begin with.

I've never heard of a different tax for trucks and cars.

I guess I just call it car diesel and truck diesel - The technical name is "Motor vehicle fuel" (under 26000 lbs) and "Use fuel" (over 26000 lbs) and I think they're taxed differently in most states, including mine.