Dana 44 swap, M1010

[twomorestrokes]

I don't get it. Seems like you'd either swap axles OR go with the 37's. Why do both? I don't think you'd want to drop down to 4.10's with the tall tires personally. Seems like you'd try the 37's first and do the harder part if you felt you needed to go further.

The 4.56's are perfect for the 37's. My truck used to struggle to cruise at 50 now 65 is the sweet spot for comfy cruising and 70 is the old 50. For around town the tall tires are a good match for the gears as well. Feels tame like a gas powered civilian model but can still tote a heaping load of logs out of the swamp and up a steep grade.

 

[BikerBi11]

I have been doing a lot of soul searching the last couple of days. Although I have already put the 44 under the front, I think this weekend it is going to get the 60 back. It is not hard for me to make these swaps, so, I am going to try the 4.56's with the 37s and see how I like them. I already have a 14 bolt with 4.10s in is, so i will be passively looking for a 60 for the front with the same ratio in it. Some very valid points have been made about my experiment, not being the rite parts, going down in stregnth, the "what if" thing, etc. and you all have been rite, I am just hard headed sometimes. Thanks to you all for the help with making the rite decisions. Pics to follow.

 

[BIG_RED]

If I really needed higher gears and never used 4X4, I would remove the front drive shaft (between front axle & t-case) and just run it like a 2 wheel drive with higher gears only in the back. That way, after I had the cash for a trans swap or proper re-gear for both axles, I wouldn't have to swap front axles again.

Or you could leave the front axle in place and only use 4X4 if you slide off the road and get stuck where there's no traction.. (semi-common up here in the winter) but then if someone puts your truck in 4X4 on the road, they're probably going to blow up a t-case and or kill themselves(& your truck).

IMHO D44/GM 10-Bolt (I consider them roughly equivalent, strength-wise) are for Jeeps and S10's. I'm looking for a D60 for my M1009.. once I find a trans . I really want a D70 front. Axles are one of those "there is no too-big" type things, at least in my mind.

 

[dstang97]

That's a ton of work for a difference of .46 of a rotation. Even when you have not even tried the 37's.

 

[BikerBi11]

That's a ton of work for a difference of .46 of a rotation. Even when you have not even tried the 37's.

You are absolutely rite. Like I said, I am a little hard headed and have to talked into doing things different from time to time.

 

[Lurchwolf]

So, no one has any ideas on the stregenth of the Dana 44? I think it should handle the weight as long as I don't go cowboy on it. I will be installing it tomorrow. Pics to come.

I know this is late, but I have to say something. A D44 will be just fine for what you are doing. The strength issues come in when you stick bigger than 35s on your truck while beating on it. Bottom line, a D44 is a perfectly good axle and good on the pocket book.

 

[twomorestrokes]

I thought he WAS going to stick bigger than 35's on it?

 

[Cucvnut]

I thought he WAS going to stick bigger than 35's on it?

He is, apparently the poster above you did not read the thread.

 

[dstang97]

I know this is late, but I have to say something. A D44 will be just fine for what you are doing. The strength issues come in when you stick bigger than 35s on your truck while beating on it. Bottom line, a D44 is a perfectly good axle and good on the pocket book.

Yeah you are right half ton axles are great. Post pictures of your pocketbook.

 

[BikerBi11]

Was going to work on it today and get some pics, but had to work all nite.... and it is snowing like crazy. Just dont feel like walking out to my shop and not getting much done.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Yeah you are right half ton axles are great. Post pictures of your pocketbook.

They were used in the 3/4 tons as well.

 

[dstang97]

They were used in the 3/4 tons as well.

Still equivalent to a half ton.

 

[Skinny]

I know this is late, but I have to say something. A D44 will be just fine for what you are doing. The strength issues come in when you stick bigger than 35s on your truck while beating on it. Bottom line, a D44 is a perfectly good axle and good on the pocket book.

Not to be a thorn but I really have to disagree with you. The D44 is pretty much maxed out in this application and that is with stock sized tires doing nothing but street duty. This is also going to show with your maintenance items such as TRE's, balljoints, bearings, brakes, etc. wearing out at accelerated rates.

A D44 in a fullsize rig is marginal at best with anything in the 33 to 35 inch range. If you don't believe it, load your rig up with a full days worth of tools, riding gear, and spares. Then back up a hill or obstacle in low range with the wheels turned. The noise you hear is the little ujoints or shafts breaking because they just simply are not sized for a big truck.

A D44 is good on the pocket book only on initial purchase price, it will suck you dry in every other way. It is fair in strength only after adding lots of chromoly to it and sticking it in a Jeep or Toyota, not a K30 chassis.

KEEP THE DANA 60

 

[BikerBi11]

Just have to go and order u bolts and such for the front and rear. hopefully i will feel like working on it tomorrow.

 

[WARWAG]

The Dana 44 is plenty strong. He also said he would not be taking her off road. I dont see an issue. In fact the Dana 44 came on 1 ton Chevys. In fact I suspect that is where he is getting his axles off of. The Dana 44 is a direct bolt in place of the Dana 60. The rear Corporate 14 FF may also be but most likely will need the perches moved in a few inches. That is easy. The shock mounts may need to be moved as well again easy. He could have all of these mods done and the axle mounted in less than an hour by himself. If the man wants to modify his truck then who are any of us to give him **** over it? Would any of you complain if some one changed from stock tires to Non original tires? No? Then why give him so much grief about swapping out axles so he can get the highway speed he wants without sacrificing his engine? Now that that has been said if you dont mind I will give you a few ideas I have kicked around for my M1028.

Changing the gear ratio in my stock axles. I am running 37" BFGoodrich Baja Mts on 12 bolt HMMWV wheels. I would like to run 75 (top speed) without grenading my engine.


37" tires 4.56 gears (stock)= 3105 RPM at 75 mph
37" tires 4.10 gears = 2792 RPM at 75 mph
37" tires 3.73 gears = 2540 RPM at 75 mph

Gear change cost about $700 bucks each axle. This does not include any traction devices.

Next idea:
Swap in a purpose built 700R4. This will give you an excellent OD .70 ratio and a lower first gear ratio 3.06:1

37" tires, 4.56 gears with .70 OD = 2174 rpms at 75 MPH (your engine is happy to run this all day)

Costs will run around $2500 for trans and swap and another $700 or so for your drive shafts to be shortened and lengthened. I would find a 700R4 that was built up. A stock 700R4 is not strong enough. DO NOT LISTEN TO PEOPLE WHO TELL YOU THEY CANT BE BUILT TO HANDLE EXTRA POWER AND TORQUE. They are stupid.

Option #3

37" tires, 4.56 gears, stock TH400 trans and a Gear Vendors unit= 2484 RPM at 75 MPH
You can find good used Gear Vendor units for about $800 if your willing to wait some time to find one. Right now you can find a bunch around $1,500 to $2,000. Craigs list is a good source as well as Ebay ect ect.

37" tires, 4.56 gears and Gear Vendors= 2484 RPMs at 75 MPH
37" tires, 4.10 gears and Gear Vendors= 2233 RPMs at 75 MPH
37" tires, 3.37 gears and Gear Vendors= 2032 RPMs ar 75 MPH

There are additional advantages to having a Gear Vendors unit. Its not just an Over Drive unit but also a Gear splitter!

 

[Skinny]

You kill the value of your truck...period. That is one of the great reasons to buy a non-09 Cuck in the first place. You are guaranteed to have a low geared D60 sitting up front. Every Cuck I've seen on ebay with a 3/4 front axle has been pillaged and not worth much. Plus to swap it out again you are looking at a $1000 to $1500 bill. It simply is not worth it. Plus you still have the wear and tear on an axle that really can't handle it. There is a reason why they are so highly regarded.

Sure do what you wish, great part is it's a free country. Don't say you haven't been warned. That is exactly what it is, a warning. You don't have to get offended by people telling you that it's a stupid decision.

 

[twomorestrokes]

If the man wants to modify his truck then who are any of us to give him **** over it?

Got that right! Really bothers me when people get ripped for posting how they like their trucks.

Good ideas on your post warwag. I also have 37s on H1 wheels and it made a huge difference toning it down for decent speeds. The truck goes 65-70 easily but overdrive would be really nice. My TH400 works great so I don't want to mess with it but perhaps in the future?

 

[dstang97]

We have been waiting for your reply warwag.

 

[WARWAG]

You now have it. (post #55)

To make something clear. I personally would not change out the Dana 60. Its an excellent top rated axle. I have populated mine with chromolly 35 spline axles and all new bearings, seals ect ect. But again its his vehicle and he is trying to get the lowest RPMs at the cheapest expense. I can relate to that and understand where he is coming from. Again its his vehicle. What I did was to show him my ideas to try and help him achieve his goals. Nothing is cheaper though than swapping out axles with taller gears (numerically lower) if you do it your self. Pretty easy with a Dana 44 (direct bolt in). Also dont discount the strength of a 44. They are pretty strong. Not as strong as a Dana 60 but plenty strong for his application. Street with muddy / dirt roads. Also if he wanted to, the really only weak link in a stock 44 is the axles themselves (not for his application though). They tapper down where the splines are. A set of chromolly axles will fix that right up and be stronger than stock Dana 60 axles. Reid Racing also makes a knuckle housing that is much stronger than a Dana 60s stock unit. All in all you can build a Dana 44 to be stronger than a stock Dana 60 if you really wanted to. Of course you could do the same thing to a Dana 60 (as I did) and have a Brutally Strong Dana 60! For me if I had a Dana 44 I would just swap out the axles for a set of chromolly ones and a new set of hubs and call it good. Again this is just my opinion and like *******s everyone has one. Take it or leave it doesnt matter much to me. Just thought I would try and help out a fellow SS Brother out.

 

[Recovry4x4]

There are a butt load of 3/4 ton trucks (think 10 bolt) running around successfully with 37" tires. Is it a stupid idea for these folks to drive these trucks? Will it wreck the value of the truck? Yep! Are they weaker? Yep! Will the truck flip over and kill a mini van load of nuns and koala bears? Unlikley. If he breaks it on the trail, who cares. I wouldn't do it to my trucks but it's not my decision.